Road Racing and Training Thread - Week Ending 10/14

brumrunner - 16:04 for a 5.x k is pretty damn quick! It's good to get taken down a few notches every now and then so we truly know our place in running :) Good luck with the upcoming half next weekend.

Numbers guy - It's a long road back, but it sounds like you're well on your way. Keep up the steady progression.

marmite - Ouch, that must've been one helluva cold. Currently, I'm training in 2 pairs of Mizuno Precisions for daily running, racing in the Asics Piranha's for 5k's, Asics Hyperspeed for 10k/15k, and Adidas Adizero Feather for marathon/half. Just picked up a pair of the NB890v2 (like VF Runner), only because I had a voucher for a free pair of New Balance, we'll see how those treat me.

NJ Truth - Helluva Michigan workout! I've been meaning to try it out someday. Couple that workout with your 3 x 5k and solid long run, I'd say that's a pretty successful peak week for NYC.

NP1112 - Holy Crap...21 @ GMP is freaking insane, broken up or not! As long as you can feel recovered within the next few days, I'd say that's a good workout, but I'd be afraid that kind of workout is a little much.

VF Runner - Very nice week, on 6 days running no less.

CTA - I wouldn't worry about it too much. You've nailed pretty much everything over the last couple months, a week like this (and it's not like it's that bad anyway) was bound to happen.

Edgemont Dave - Holy crap...major CONGRATS!

Another - Wow, big week! I agree with CTA. You've typically been pretty spot on when it comes to knowing what kind of shape you're in.

kr - Even as a statistic junkie, that's some impressive data you've put together...if not a little obsessive :) Although it's definitely interesting to see what works for others, I suspect most everyone would come to the same conclusion you did.

Goal Race: Jacksonville Marathon (12/16)

Goal Time: 2:25ish

I had a pretty good week. Work was atrocious this week, and sleep came at a premium. I was, however, lucky enough to get in all the mileage that I intended, so I was happy with that.

M: am - 10 easy (7:49) / pm - 6 easy (7:33)

Tu: am - 11 total w/ 10x600 w/200 jog rec (1:53.5 avg) / pm - 6 easy (7:27)

W: am - 10 easy (7:41) / pm - 6 easy (7:28)

Th: am - 12 easy w/ random fartlek (6:34) / pm - 6 easy (7:36)

F: am - 6 easy (7:57) / pm - 6 easy (7:40)

Sa: am - 6 easy (7:44) / pm - 4 easy (8:01)

Su: am - 9 total w/ 5 mile race (1st OA - 25:25) / pm - 6 easy (7:26)

Weekly Total - 104 miles

YTD - 2,621 miles

My race went very well. The gun went off and I immediately found myself in the lead with a set of footsteps right on my tail. My legs didn't feel that great, and I knew I started a little slow. Hit the mile mark in 5:10, which is slower than I intended, but oh well. During the second mile, I still hear those pesky footsteps right behind me, but I didn't pick it up much (though I tried), and hit the second mile in 5:09. During the 3rd mile, the guy drafting behind me swings wide and tries to pass me. It is right here when I decide to really make my move. I pushed hard during this mile to try and break him. When I split the 3rd mile in 4:58 and didn't hear him anymore, I knew it worked. The last 2 miles were a struggle to maintain, but I felt I did a pretty good job despite the massive surge in the 3rd mile. Last 2 splits were 5:04 and 5:03 respectively for miles 4 and 5. I crossed the finish line in 25:25, good enough for 1st overall by 20 seconds, and a new 5 mile PR. I honestly feel had I been fresh for this race, I could've made a run at sub-25. Regardless, I'm very pleased with my time today, and more importantly, how I raced.

Some nice running by pablo and brum.

Special congrats to edgemont dave. Totally nailed it! I am curious as to what your half split was.

I ran leg 2 of 6 and took over from one of our club's best runners in 6th place and lost 17 positions. Loads of quick guys flying past me, very humbling.

I don't know what impresses me more: that you ran a sub-16 paced 5k in your offseason for fun, or that 17 people passed you while doing.

Pablo: Congrats on the 5mi PR, you are a machine.

On to me:

Goal: NYC sub-2:47

Mon: 4mi Easy (very sore from Sunday's half)

Tue: 6mi Easy AM/5mi Easy PM (still very sore)

Wed: 9mi Easy (regular sore)

Thu: 10mi w/ 6mi M-paced fartlek on TM

Fri: 13mi Easy

Sat: 7mi Easy

Sun: 22mi w/ 18mi progression: 6mi @ 6:38, 6 @ 6:31, 6 @ 6:20.

Total: 76mi

Very happy w/ today's run, it should be the "capstone" on my NYC build. Honestly a little surprised that I actually made my paces. Another week or 10 days of real training and then the taper!

Thanks guys. It feels amazing to be part of the sub-3 club. Even people who don't follow running get that sub-3 is a big deal.

My splits were 1:28:48 and 1:29:46. My 20 mile split was 2:15:16, a faster pace than my half split. Once I was past mile 20 I allowed myself to slow down a bit, knowing sub-3 was in the bag and hills awaited me. Did miles 21-25 between 6:53 and 6:57, mile 26 which included a 50 foot hill in 7:03 and the last piece at 5:30 pace.

For anyone who cares, I took a GU before the race and at miles 8, 14 and 21, sipping maybe 2 ounces of water with each. I'd carbo loaded for two days, consuming 600+ grams of carbs each day. It all worked. So did my extreme taper. 44 two weeks out, 34 one week out, and 4, 4, 2 the week of. I felt no "wall" issues whatsoever and think I was actually capable of something like a 2:56, but didn't press it because I didn't want to jeopardize sub-3. I'm gonna press it in Boston!

Best of luck to everyone in your races this season, particularly my fellow sub-3 aspirants, who like me are amazingly at the slower end of the spectrum here. It was an honor to be part of this community. You guys have some talent and determination, it's humbling.

Oh, I should add that my 2nd in the age group thing was a complete fluke. For some reason, no fast 35-39 year old men chose to run this race. Every other age group, even up to 50-54 had faster runners. Wild! But I'll take second place. Need to find out if there's any sort of prize for me, since I got out of Hartford and endured the long drive home shortly after the finish.

tiger_runner. That's a ton of quality in one week. I hope you are a quick recoverer.

Pablo. Congrats on another PR. Given the legs you went into it with it sounds like a perfectly executed race.

Edgemont. No, it wasn't a negative split like the elites hope for, but that kind of pacing is about as good as it gets for us mortals. Welcome to the 3's!

I dont feel like the 21@MGP was too much 3 weeks out. the easy easy jogs between sets were nice. But like you said, I will find out this week how flat I am from it. Thursday is the next short workout.

My coach is an old hardass for high miles and long workouts. I told him I wanted to max out around 100 and he said "thats it?" crazy old man is 63 and runs near that himself.

Congrats on the sub-3, Edgemont!

Pretty blah week for me; mostly trying to recover from the half last Sunday without breaking anything. For whatever reason my right quad always gets super sore after hard races.

Goal race: Philly half, 11/18

M: rest

T: 8 easy (extraordinarily sore)

W: 10 steady

Th: 11.5 @C&O towpath. 6xMile off 2:00 jog: 5:38, 5:38, 5:32, 5:37, 5:32, 5:18

F: 9.5 steady progression on the treadmill (8:00->6:00)

Sa: AM 7.5, PM 9. Both easy

Su: AM: 5, PM 7. Quarter repeats in the afternoon.

Total: 67.5 miles/483 min.

Sunday's workout: I enjoyed a few too many beverages last night, but still wanted some faster work today. 11x400 off variable walk rest (more or less just starting whenever). Rest in parentheses: 79 (73) 80 (64) 81 (68) 78 (66) 74 (67) 74 (52) 76 (58) 75 (51) 71 (63) 71 (52) 70 (43) 69.

Kr, to my knowledge the breakdown of interval paces for the Michigan are the following:

1600m hard: VO2 max pace; AKA 3K/5K pace - for me I do it at goal 5K pace

1200m and 800m hard: VO2 max or same as 1600 interval pace ... but I also like to do cut-downs if I can

400m hard: rep pace; AKA 1500m pace or whatever you have left

Mile active recovery: 45 - 60 seconds slower than your 1600 interval pace, but in reality you want to do it as fast as you can without sacrificing the pace of your intervals

Thanks Pablo, and kudos on the PR! Edgemont congrats on the PR and breaking the 3 hour barrier!

brum: nice week with a sweet leg to top it off

Pablo: Nice running from you lately, BIG miles good work

KR: great Michigan, impressive one

Tigerrunner: Good workouts this week, you're getting in nice shape

Edgemont Dave: sounds like everything was perfect for you, congrats!

VF: awesome week from you, i'm impressed

Long Term Goal Race: Marathon in 2013

Short Term Goal Race: 12/2-Half Marathon

Mon: AM-12 easy

Tues: AM-5 easy...PM-8 "In & Out" Miles + 1WU/1CD

Wed: AM- 10 easy

Thurs: AM- 14 easy

Fri: AM-4 easy...PM- 7 Unstructured Fartlek

Sat: AM-10 easy

Sun: AM-18 with "push" the last 5

Total: 90

Big week for me, I hit 90 for the first time in a long time, and felt great doing it. Workouts went well this week as well, i'm enjoying the long threshold type stuff.

8 tempo: Started off around 5:35 and clicked my way down to 5:25. Felt really smooth and fairly easy.

Fartlek: Started off with 1.5 at easy run pace then threw in around 10 surges varying from 1-6 minutes. Dropped a mile at 5:19 on one of the hard segments.

I’ll try to catch up on everyone’s week tomorrow evening, but here is my Chicago race report for now…

Goal Race: Chicago Marathon

Goal Time: 2:29:59

Actual time: 2:33:15 (6 second pr)

1: 5:43 – Immediately had some stomach cramping (I tried to ignore it because this has happened in my first 3 marathons as well. It has probably always been nerves) Right on pace: but plan was to go out comfortable for the first 2 in 5:50-5:55 and ease into it like I did in Jacksonville last year

2: 5:47 – adjusted my race plan to take first 3 slightly easy after that first mile.

3: 5:50 – a training partner also shooting for sub 2:30 caught up for me. It was good to have familiar company. Stomach cramps went away.

4: 5:44 –

5: 5:40 – started noticing the wind. Decided to trade pace each mile with friend (He is 6 inches taller than me so I definitely got the better deal out of this). I had this mile.

6: 5:48 -- he paced this one. I was starting to worry about the slow pace

7: 5:38 – feeling fine/pleased about the pace

8: 5:42 – wind was really noticeable still, but we were getting into a groove

9: 5:35 - oops my mile…and first mile without a strong headwind. Probably dropped it too much

10: 5:44 -

11: 5:41 – focused on a pack/group up ahead that clearly was a group of guys shooting sub 2:30. We had been gaining on them gradually since mile 7. I commented that we needed to catch that group if we want sub 2:30.

12: 5:38

13: 5:41

half marathon on watch: 74:50-55ish/official gun split 75:01- I wanted to give myself more of a cushion, but I was feeling pretty good and confident about a negative split

14: 5:37 – still gaining on the pack – really yearning to catch them

15: 5:40 – my friend dropped me on this mile. He opted to go right after the pack with a 5:30. I was still gaining on them and was hesitant to drop it that much.

16: 5:40 – still gaining on them, but I was all alone now. My friend hit another 5:30 and caught the pack. I was hoping to be there in another few miles.

17: 5:40 – staying consistent, but all alone aside from guys randomly falling off the pack and fading hard. Still gaining on the main pack, and I am about 10-15 seconds back at this point.

18: 5:48 – starting to feel it, and I lost some ground on the pack.

19: 5:42 – I realized it was now or never and I needed the pack if I was going to do it. I rallied a bit and gained ground again.

20: 5:50 – This was the end of it for me. I was still on sub 2:30 pace at mile 20, but I knew it was probably out of reach. I kept trying to rally/surge like I did for mile 19, but I couldn’t maintain anything.

21: 5:58 – All alone – passed an elite pacer walking who dropped out this mile. Part of me wanted to yell at him to push me to catch that pack.

22: 6:08 – started getting caught/passed by people for the first time since the first 3 miles

23: 6:11 – doing the math in my head sub 2:31- probably not, sub 2:32 – maybe, sub 2:33 – I hope so

24: 6:21 – started running into a headwind again and almost certain I can still pr

25: 6:27 – grinding/getting passed/but still passing others

26.2: 7:44 (~6:13/mi) – I had a nice kick all alone on the final straight to keep my pr

Official time: 2:33:15/official place: 91st overall out of 38,535

I’m feeling pretty disappointed about the result, but I know it is a pr and no complaining about prs. Also, I was ecstatic last year for running a 2:33:21, so why should it feel so different this year? However, my training was just on a whole other level this year. The mileage I put in was much heavier, and my paces on the same workouts were considerably quicker. I also was feeling amazing throughout my taper. A few things reflections I have on this race are that perhaps I am better suited for low key races (I felt somewhat overwhelmed by the magnitude of the race even with the elite development treatment I received and that may have contributed to my early race nerves), I probably need to address some sleep issues that I have (I wake up at least once every night typically, and during my taper, it transforms into full blown insomnia, waking up 5 or so times a night in the week leading up to my marathons… which again may be my nerves), and in races where I may have a good pack to work with, I may be better suited to go out on pace with the pack instead of sticking to my race plan of going out slow and easing into the pace. I am left wondering if things would have been different if I had that pack of sub 2:30 guys to work with the entire race, and was not stuck trying to run them down between miles 11-20. I ultimately also accept that I am going to have good days and bad days with all the marathons I do. Last Sunday, probably just wasn’t my day, but hopefully, I can get it right next time.

I also made a few amateur mistakes out there: I nearly forgot to take my inhaler and had to rush it when we were being called the line (another thing that probably added to my nerves), and I caused myself to develop these 2 works of art:

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/523715_656948493118_1899344193_n.jpg

by 1. Tying right shoe too tight causing too much pressure on my heel and 2. Making the mistake I joked about and pulling a meb k by leaving my back-up breath-rite stripe in my left shoe for the race (I store gels and other supplies in my shoes so I don’t forget them before the race/but I might rethink that strategy now).

Despite my disappointment, there are definitely a few positives I can take from this race related to my club team. We finished 3rd in the men’s open category in most competitive division in the Team competition. We also were 5 for 6 with prs, and the friend I traded the pace with for the first 15, reached the sub 2:30 promiseland with a 2:29:20 and beat every person in the pack we were chasing down.

Going forward, I know I am a better marathoner than my result, and I know I am capable of a sub 2:30. I have followed a 1 marathon a year schedule for my first 4, but I can’t see myself waiting until next fall for another shot at it. I’m hoping to find a fast late winter or spring marathon that fits my schedule and budget.

Thank you all again for the kind words last week and for all the support each week leading up to the race!

Goal: Philly Marathon 11/18, Sub 3

Mon: 7

Tues: 4 Am/ 10pm

Wed: 9

Thurs: 11 (with 2x800 + 3x1 mile)

Friday: 9

Sat: 21

Sun: 8

Total: 79

OK week, Thursday's workout was good, was going to add some more repeats of 800s but I got a later start then I wanted. Saturday's long run was on the Philly Marathon course, so it was good to get some work on it. But it was still slow, I didn't really push any part of it, but in a little more then a month I am going to have to do that and more around a minute per mile faster, it is VERY scary. Big week next week with a good workout planned for tues and a half marathon on Sunday. I will really see where I am after that race.

Edgemont Dave - Big congrats! Your workouts have been great and I knew you would nail it! How hard is the Hartford Course? As a fellow 35-39 year old, I find that our age group is either hit or miss, we either have really big guns, or a pretty weak field in relations to others. I blame all the grunge music we were listening to!

NP112- that is crazy, 21 miles at MP!!! At the end of a 101 mile week, crazy!

CTA - nice 2x3mile workout, I might see if I could hit those numbers, it would be a good gage seeing that we have the same goals

KR- WOW! Holy Running log statistics! I love it!

Pablo - nice PR,

Major kudos to Edgemont Dave for breaking 3 hours in Hartford. You did the research, put in the work and executed your plan on race day. Now, you can sit back and enjoy the holidays knowing that you did well in 2012. I hope to see you in Boston.

As for me, I had my MRI on Tuesday and saw the Doctor on Friday morning. Luckily, the MRI did not show a tear. The Doctor diagnosed me as having a severe case of cry baby. He kicked me out of his office and told me to take some Advil.

Seriously, taking it easy for the past 8 weeks was probably what I needed.

Goal Race: Boston Marathon

Goal Time: TBD

Mon.: 45:00 on elliptical machine.

Tues.: 45:00 on elliptical machine.

Wed.: 45:00 on elliptical machine.

Thu.: Rest. Client Meetings

Fri.: 45:00 on elliptical machine. Plus 2 very easy miles on treadmill (8:45's)

Sat.: 5 easy miles on treadmill (8:00's)

Sun.: 6.2 easy miles on treadmill (8:00's)

Total: 13.2 miles. At least I'm a runner again.

Congrats on the PR, Pablo.

Congratulations everyone on their PRs!

Monday: 6: ran Tufts 10k @ 7:33 / mile ( quite flat )

Tuesday: 5 at approximately 8:30 pace ( a couple big hills)

Wednesday: off

Thursday: 5.5 total, including 4 miles @ 7:31 / mile

Friday: off

Saturday: 4.5 at an easy pace (conservative guess). I went hiking for 3.5 hours with bursts of running and was very drained at the end of this. I bought some new running shoes to debut for this unique type of workout and they held up very well, as I had no blisters or painful toenails despite forgetting to put vaseline on my feet. These shoes have lots of space in the toe box and provide lots of support for my ankles.

Sunday: 5, including a 5K @ 7:11 / mile and a 1 mile warm-up and 1 mile warm-down.

26 for the week.

I'm doing Baystate Marathon next weekend and am a bit unprepared but it will be an adventure. Two weeks ago I did a hilly (+ or - 750 feet elevation change) half marathon in 8:07 pace in 70+ degree heat. My plan is to start off around 8:20 pace including 30 second walk breaks at the 8 water stops prior to crossing the mile 15 pace clock around 2:05. Then I will have 1:55 to do the remaining 11.22 miles and will start incorporating longer walk breaks after that and just try to finish under 4 hours. Since it is so flat, I think I'll feel very strong through mile 15, as a considerable portion of my limited weekly mileage is at 7:30 - 8:30 pace on hilly terrain. The last eight miles especially will be very rough though, but if I can even manage 10:00 pace for the final 11 miles , I'll finish under 4 hours.

brum - nice leg. I too was humbled this weekend.

marm - get well. I run a lot (relatively speaking of course - probably 70% or so of my week) on trails and have 2 pairs of Puma nightfoxs that I rotate. They are great trail shoes for my build/ankles. For the roads, I had a pair of asics gel-keyanos (sp?) and have just switched over to Brooks' Ghost. Have to say that I preferred the keyanos though. For cross races I use Nike Victory spikes if possible or Nike Streak flats for cross and/or road races. Spikes on the track always.

Dave - great sub 3 run. I am not, and doubt I will ever attempt to be, a member of that club - although my wife has been trying to convince me to race a 1/2. Baby steps I guess. Very impressive.

Pablo - great 5 miler. Love the 3rd mile surge. Ballsy. Sounds like you are very fit.

Hawk - maybe someday I wll wake up and think, "I'm gonna go 22 today - hard and progressively faster." Doubt it though. Sick.

Des - you're gonna go sub 2:30 and you know it. Nice recap.

Girl - nice 5K

My week:

Mon: 7 easy

Tues: Hill repeats (about 250 meter climbs up a decent trail grade - 14 reps) 7 miles with warm-up/cool-down

Wed: Off (missed a 15' putt on 18 for a 79 - shot 80; would've been my 1st sub 80 round in several years :)

Thrs: 8 easy

Fri: Off

Sat: Masters 5K CC Nationals (top 25 barely I think - 17:33) 6 miles with warm up/cool down

Sat: 5 easy

Total: 33 miles

The 5k CC race: Foot-locker high school nationals course in San Diego. Perfect weather (70 and sunny). Went out with the last part of the top 15-20 and came through 1 mile in 5:30ish. Felt ok in this spot. Climbed the 1st big hill and when we came down the backside, I realized it was gonna be a long 1.75 miles in. Just one of those heavy legs/burning lungs days where it's tough to keep it together. Since my high school days, that course has always had its way with me. It's an uneven, turning and twisting 2 looper with legit climbs. Anyway, I toughed it out and watched a 1/2 dozen or so guys go by me in between miles 1 and 2.5. Was able to hold my position up the hill the 2nd time and chase down a couple of guys on the home stretch. But based on what I had left the last 300 or so (closed the last .1 in sub 5:00 pace), I knew I left 10-15 seconds and several places out there - just didn't have the courage to dig deep earlier and leave it on the course. What are you gonna do? That's why they call it racing. That 1st beer after tasted damn good!

A good week of training/racing to all.

Aim: 2:44 in December (Dallas?)

Mon.—9mi.

Tues.—12mi. on trails in 1:28.

Wed.—am. 6mi. with 9x130m strides/ pm. 7mi.

Thurs.—12mi.

Fri.—7.5mi.

Sat.—am. 6mi. including 16x100m strides/ pm. 8.5mi.

Sun.—20mi. in hills (7:35)

Week: 88 miles (ytd 3172). It seemed as though I was dragging all week. I wonder if it isn’t just slow recovery from last weekend’s 12mi. race. In any case, I’ll try to get in much more quality in the next few weeks.

Edgemont Dave: Well-done!

NP1112: Very impressive 21mi.. I’ve never thought of breaking up a long run like that.

KR: The analysis is very interesting – thanks. I’m curious, what would qualify as “marathon specific,” in your view (for example, long runs at a certain pace or tempo runs of a certain distance)?

Very nice 5m pablo. Yes, it was pretty much an obvious outcome, but I just used the fact that I was being lazy last year as a excuse to try an alternate approach. I got some stats down after last year, so it would have been remiss of me not to compare ;-)

Some nice speed there tiger_runner.

Nice progression long run cyhawk.

Cheers for that NJ truth. It sounds pretty much what I'm looking for. I'm intending to do some quicker stuff over the next 7 weeks in a 'work on my weaknesses kind of way'. Possibly primarily via fartlek and hills, but when I want something more structured it could be ideal.

lol printer. Good news on the MRI!

Good luck for next weekend running girl 79.

has been who never was - sounds like you have motivation for your next cc race if you're doing another?

Nice report des. You sound like me before I banged my knee up a few years ago. I used to get really nervous before races, etc. Ultimately, it took the knee problem, along with some other bits and pieces, to put everything in perspective. Racing is what we do all the training for, so try to get yourself in a position where you can enjoy it, as otherwise it sucks the fun out of it.

Also, you know you're better than the time you ran, and you'll surely have that sub-2:30 next time out. As an aside, I'm intending to do London next spring, which will be my first spring marathon for 4 years, so it looks like we'll both be nailing the sub-2:30 around the same time after a near miss around the same time ;-)

Hans E. - I basically classed runs as specific based on a combination of volume and pace, though I have included a 8 x 1600m @ ~HM as specific because it's slightly more voluminous than the 'standard' for that type of session. All my specific work was done in the last 6 weeks pre-taper (2 weeks) and was like this (% of eventual MP - 5:44 - in brackets):

Week 1: Tuesday: 20m with 16m @ 6:14m/m (91%) / Friday: 15m with 12m @ 6:06m/m (93.5%).

Week 2: Wednesday: 22m with 18m @ 6:16m/m (90.6%) / Sunday: 20m with hot and hilly HM in 76:33 (98.2%).

Week 3: Friday am: 14m with 10m @ 5:53m/m (97.4%) / pm: 16m with 3 x 4km off ~3mins rec, averaging 13:55 (102.4%) and 4.5m @ 6:13m/m (91.5%) - total of 30m for the day with 22m averaging 5:50m/m (98.3%).

Week 4: no sessions.

Week 5: 15m with 10m @ 5:43m/m (100.4%)

Week 6: Wednesday: 8 x 1600m @ avg: 5:26m/m (105.1%) / Sunday: 20m with HM in 74:07 (101.4%)

Loads of good training going on. Keep it up all :-)