Coe's multipaced 800m-1500m training.

basic physiology:

In a previous thread you wrote, in part:

No that is not what Peter Coe meant at all.

Read more:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4848289#ixzz2E10H51G4

Now, the book "Winning Running" is by Peter Coe, not by Coe and Martin, nor by Martin. So, if you are a Coe fan, what specifically did Peter Coe mean by terms like "anaerobic conditioning" and "anaerobic capacity training" if not what he wrote in his book?

basic physiology wrote:

So you're saying that a marathon is anaerobic? According to the definition you post it must be?

Do you not see the problem here. There is certainly some BS to be cleared up, but you can't or won't do it.

Moron

Get the fu*k out of here

You're wrong

period

I wrote what Peter Coe wrote exactly as it appears in 2 of his books - one that he wrote by himself, not with David Martin.

These are what Peter Coe means when he uses these terms - which was the OP's question - and is all that matters

now fu*k off

imbecile

Sorry, meant "in a previous POST you wrote, in part"

SlowFatMaster wrote:

OK, "basic physiology", if that is not what Peter Coe meant at all, than what, specifically, did he mean?

The diagram on page 67 of Winning Running describes the zone between 75% and 90% of VO2 max as "Anaerobic Conditioning" and the zone between 100% and 130% of VO2 max as "Anaerobic Capacity Training" or 1500-800 pace. Those terms may not be "accurate" but they are the terms that Peter Coe used and poster "clearing up the bs" had the way Peter Coe used the terms exactly right.

There must be a misprint. How can anyone especially Peter Coe describe marathon to half marathon pace as 'anaerobic conditioning'? There is no sense to it at all.

As for the term 'anaerobic capacity training' It is a genereal term that coaches and physiologists use that has no specific definition. As you know there is speed work which is mostly anaerobic, and the term 'anaerobic threshold' which is not a physiologically accurate term. The confusion arises from the misconception that when we get out of breath, we are exercizing anaerobically when obviously it is mostly aerobic, i.e. VO2 max plus excess CO2 expiration.

One definition of anaerobic capacity used by exercize physiologists is: the maximal accumulated O2 deficit. But what is oxygen deficit?

One definition is: "The difference between oxygen uptake of the body during early stages of exercise and during a similar duration in a steady state of exercise."

Which will occur during a long sprint because the heart cannot jump 100 beat per minute immediately, that takes 30 seconds or more. That certainly does NOT apply to 800-1500m pace.

I blame David Martin for these psuedoscientific definitions, because he was the Ex Phys who ingratiated himself most with Peter Coe. You would expect a PhD to use textbook definitions, whether they be scientifically accurate or not. That is why it is so much better to read Tim Noakes' explanations of why the accepted ideas are in fact wildly innacurate. Noakes is a Doctor, not a sports scientist, he doesn't have to follow protocol and is a free agent in making up his own mind about what is good science and what is bad science.

THERE IS NO MISPRINT.

What part of that does your tiny pea brain not comprehend?

Yet again, got to ask Basic Physiology, do you have a Phd.? I personally just think your a troll or very stupid. THERE IS NO MISPRINT IN EITHER BOOK. Maybe you should learn how to read a book and look at charts. Both books mention the same charts. Also there has been two editions of the Coe/ Martin book, if there was a misprint I am sure they would have fixed it for the second edition, wouldnt you think? Remember all the OP cares about is what Coe has to say about training paces, NOT YOU.

It's either a misprint, or the most dreadful stupidity.

Marathon pace IS NOT ANAEROBIC.

Why even argue the point? It's just utterly idiotic.

basic physiology wrote:

It's either a misprint, or the most dreadful stupidity.

Marathon pace IS NOT ANAEROBIC.

Why even argue the point? It's just utterly idiotic.

You're either retarded or....

nope

you're just retarded.

basic physiology hasn't got a clue. Anyone with the ability to read should be able to see the chart on p. 192 of Coe/Martin which shows that what Coe means by anaerobic conditioning is steady state through tempo training--in other words threshold training (at or under). It was probably Martin who put the marathon crap in there. This constitutes the overdistance paces that both Coe and Cram practiced (i.e., 5 minute miles for sub-3:30 guys).

As for the real training, when Coe and Horwill were both alive, there used to be an interview available at the British Milers Club with the two of them, where Peter Coe said that Seb did 4 of the 5 paces year-round, only dropping the 3K pace in winter. This is where the real emphasis should be: 400 pace, 800 pace, 1500 pace, 3K pace, and 5K pace for someone racing 800-3K over a season

coach d wrote:

As for the real training, when Coe and Horwill were both alive, there used to be an interview available at the British Milers Club with the two of them, where Peter Coe said that Seb did 4 of the 5 paces year-round, only dropping the 3K pace in winter. This is where the real emphasis should be: 400 pace, 800 pace, 1500 pace, 3K pace, and 5K pace for someone racing 800-3K over a season

Yes, but the 400/800 pace were not necessarily as full sessions.

400 pace - quite tough to actually hit 45.5 pace in an English winter, but a few short alactic 60s in winter or 60m hill sprints would tick the box.

800 pace - you tick this box with strides, warmup for other track sessions,

1500 pace - they did stuff like lots of 200s (30/30), or 100m hills with fast jog back, building up the number of reps.

5000 pace, well, every mid distance runner hits this in their winter training.

And a good fartlek session can hit all of them.

I suspect what they were getting at is that at some point every couple of weeks they would touch on these gears.

You also have to watch Frank's write-ups. Lovely guy, absolutely inspiring, sadly missed, but he could get carried away at times when writing down ideas or memories.

You are an idiot who doesn't know how to read. Everyone has proven you wrong so far on this thread. Why don't you just go read the book and hell if you don't want to read the book (since you cannot read anyway) go look at a chart in the book!

-----As for the real training, when Coe and Horwill were both alive, there used to be an interview available at the British Milers Club with the two of them, where Peter Coe said that Seb did 4 of the 5 paces year-round, only dropping the 3K pace in winter. This is where the real emphasis should be: 400 pace, 800 pace, 1500 pace, 3K pace, and 5K pace for someone racing 800-3K over a season —

_______________________________________________________________________________

http://www.britishmilersclub.com/bmcnews/1995spring.pdf

Basic physiology, you are proving over and over why hiring exercise science majors is a bad idea when looking for a coach. You get hung up on terminology and not the substance. It doesn't matter what you call things. Some knowledge of physiology, psychology and several other sciences as well as good social skills. Shut your physiology 101 book and open your mind.

basic physiology wrote:

It's either a misprint, or the most dreadful stupidity.

Marathon pace IS NOT ANAEROBIC.

Why even argue the point? It's just utterly idiotic.

You are idiotic basic physiology. As others have asked, whats your background in exercise science? I believe this is not the first thread you have completely screwed up on huh?

Marathon pace is not anaerobic, wtf is wrong with you guys?

And 800m and 1500m pace is not anaerobic capacity.

This is basic physiology.

Honest to god you are a moron. Have you even read either books? Obviously you are some 14-15 year old behind a computer thinking he knows everything about running. So let me ask you this. Have you ever coached an olympian? Have you even coached someone before? What is your background in exercise science? Funny how you cannot even answer that simple question.

Stop arguing. This is basic physiology, look it up.

No, no. Go read the damn book. You still refuse to answer the simple question of your background in exercise science.

No, I don't have a PhD. Jack Daniels has a PhD in this very subject. Do you think he refers to marathon pace as anearobic conditioning.

Of course not. Neither does any other author. What is it about basic physiology that you are so unable to grasp.

I don't care what the book says. The chart is wrong.