Is it wrong to run in road races if you don't pay the entry fee?

it is true wrote:

And to Law Talkin Guy, I know you're hung up on the deception/stealth in the definition of theft of services that you found on google. Maybe I can help. All the runners who paid for the race actually go to some expo or table or counter to register or pick up their shirt and number, right? This is commonly accepted. Does a bandit do this?

Maybe you want to split hairs on "running in plain sight of the RD and other runners" but how about pre-race registration? Does the bandit stand in line to pick up their number?

I wouldn't say I am "hung up" on the definition of deception/stealth. It is an element of the offence. If all the elements are not met, then the offence cannot be proved, ergo no guilt.

However, I think we are both more informed and reasonable then we (I?) may be coming across. You are exactly right on the problem of splitting hairs on "in plain sight", etc - you see it one way and I see it another. This is why I wanted to defer to precedent - rather than have you and I argue every possible position in a vaccuum. But for clarity, I will repeat, I understand that the absence of precedent does not mean that it is not illegal. I just thought it would be easier and more convincing to rely on previous decisions.

Screw the pricey Oregon race scene...just do the Fairview Loop in Southwest. Very few cars and you can get rolling on it. I chalked it with half- and some quarter-mile marks a couple of months ago, and some guy asked me what I was doing. The next day, there were spray-paint mile markers where I had chalked it so draw your owhn conclusions.

From the 30 MPH sign on Fairview head east and clockwise, all the way around to the 3.25-mile mark (at the house 100 yards before the intersection with Vista Road). Stay on the 'legal' side of the yellow lines. This is a good, rather hilly time-trial.

The whole loop itself is 3.45-miles but we cut out the small part on the main street. I'm in about your shape, did 18:38 in trainers and I'm a fat, getting old masters runner. So we figure that's about 17-low/16-high for 5K on a decent course. A friend who runs consistent 15:20s has run this in 17:08.

No need to race, just start knocking out that loop when you get the itch, and when the times come down to a point at which you are motivated to do so, it's time to find a real race (and pay for your entry fee).

it is true wrote:

Don't tell me that it hasn't yet happened just because we don't have an example right here in front of us. It could very well have happened hundreds of times. You need some logic lessons, boy.

I think it is you that needs reading lessons, not me that needs logic lessons. Here is a post that I made well before you implied that my position was that in the absence of example, something could not have happened. I made it very clear that indeed examples are insignificant and that the possible absence of example did not mean that the premise that banditing was illegal could not be true.

"We agree on the insignificance of examples. ...You are of course correct that there must a first time for everything and just because a bandit has not yet been successfully prosecuted does not mean that banditing is legal."

I don't mind debate, but I do not like to be insulted based on something that I did not say.

Yes I do this at all kinds of events.

I even get on the loud speaker before races, and after races, and tell everyone it's okay to hop in if they want.

Of course they won't get any awards or ribbons, and I ask them to not run through the chute.

And they won't be on the list of results.

Even so, we get a lot of runners who just hop right in any time.

I'm in Seattle, Washington, so any time you want to come and hope in any one of my races, just go right ahead and do it!

P.S. I think all races should be the way mine are.

Bill:

Nothing wrong with doing it that way if the people who hired you as a race director see it the same way as you do. I can tell you that in Chicago the 10 or so race organizers (typically charitable organizations) I have worked with would probably be pretty upset if they heard that announcement at their race. That is definetely not their stance. But as for Seattle, I say more power to you. Maybe I should do some races out there.

Very good thread-

I myself was in the moment of choosing to "bandit," or pay...As I spoke with the local running store sponsering the race, it was suggested to "find another race if its to spendy." At first I wanted to slap this mis-informed twirp. Second, I began to relize he was right...For three reasons. Yes, I can go look for another race, even though I desire to run in my home town instead of traveling one to two hrs. to a race less expensive. Secondly, Lets face it Those of us wishing to gage our hard earned efforts really have little to no-one understanding our intentions. Your right, all I want to do is gage progress and move on. Lastly, The cost has become extrodinary and amazingly enough the "charity," is banking on our abilities as sportsmen/women. Just as each sport has...Okey, you feel slighted that your love for running is being raped and use for profit...I had to re-educate myself by saying...this is my blessing...my gift...It's a way I can give back...my entry fee for a bit of pain and pleasure. The cost is outragous, I agree, there really should be a standard...But look at the majority of the participants...Their out there doing something that not only can they talk about in the office on Monday, but feel like their supporting something as well. You and I may look at this differently, only because we're not in it for participation...we're in it for our own reason's, mine being to win! and better myself...The weekend cost for first, second third, fourth, fifth and so on...between twenty and thirty bucks!

If you bandit it is Unjust Enrichment (Implied-In-Law or Quasi Contract) and you can be forced to pay restitution. Failure to pay is a crime and can result in legal action.

Fyi, most race instructions I've seen say that un-numbered runners CAN enter the race after the last registered runners start but they have to exit the race if an orginizer or police officer requests them to. Really,whats the harm in asking a race director if you could run behind the starting field so long as you dont hold up reopening of the course streets? Put it to him/her that way and see what they say or maybe if they will strike a 1/2 off deal under those terms.

semantics wrote:

If you bandit it is Unjust Enrichment (Implied-In-Law or Quasi Contract) and you can be forced to pay restitution. Failure to pay is a crime and can result in legal action.

I would prefer not to spend a ton more time on this thread, but given your name "semantics" I couldn't resist.

I agree that that an argument could be made for unjust enrichment (although it may fail on the element that the plaintiff must suffer some loss). However, I would not say that one that has engaged in unjustly enriching oneself has necessarily committed a "crime". As I would guess you know, there is a difference between a tort and a crime (yes, semantics indeed).

Again, please don't mistake my resistance to "theft of services" as me saying that there is no possible legal wrong when one bandits. I am just trying to say that "theft of services" is not a slam dunk.

I never bandited myself nor plan to but something I thought of while reading this thread and seeing people say banditing is "theft of services"...

If that's the case, shouldn't everyone get their money back when the people putting on the race f*** up and mismeasure the course or mark it poorly? I was once winning a money race and got led the wrong way by the lead bike. The other competitors followed the markings (which were poor but I think the other guys had run the course before), I had to turn back and play catch up, then got 2nd for a significant loss of $. I had PAID to run this race, and then not only did I lose the chance to get a legitimate PR, I also didn't get the prize money I should have because I got led off course by the incompetent race staff. So I don't feel too bad that there are people out there banditing...

On the flip side of that, if a bandit were in the race and interfered with me that bandit would have to die. Or one of those fags who decides to jump out of the crowd and get a little time on TV running next to the leader.

moral of the story: don't f*** with mormons.

imo the prices they are asking for some of these rates are outlandish (I’ll always pay $20). When it gets to $85 for a 5k (just saw this recently), I don’t blame the bandits. I’ve just learned this term but have banditted events before. My policy though is to not start at the start and not finish at the finish (or at least don’t go through the official start and end corrals), don’t take their drinks or food at the rest stops, and ffs, don’t go to the post race event. Just benefit from the course and leave. Or, if your are in the northeast, you can often volunteer in exchange for doing the event for free. This has always worked for me for cycling events at least.

No, its not okay. Quit being a cheap sob. Do you realize how much work goes into the logistics of running a race and the insurance part of it? You are really dense and a selfish turd. What happens if you get hit by a car on this course??? Do you have any legal standing cuz you didn't want to pay the fee? Get real idiot.