NAIA - what is this?

National Association of Idiots in Athletics

NAACP - Niggas are always causin problems

I'd place it between D2 and D3 in terms of competitiveness. But it really depends on the sport as well. Some pro baseball players have come out of NAIA for example. But I don't know what the level of running is. There are definitely some good athletes. D3 has some good runners, and its better than that, especially since it's smaller.

MagnumRunner wrote:

I'd place it between D2 and D3 in terms of competitiveness. But it really depends on the sport as well. Some pro baseball players have come out of NAIA for example. But I don't know what the level of running is. There are definitely some good athletes. D3 has some good runners, and its better than that, especially since it's smaller.

Thanks for that.

What makes a school D1, D2 or D3? Can schools ever change division? What makes NAIA schools different? Why are they distinct from the D1, D2 and D3 schools?

NAIA is like a much smaller version of the NCAA. It is a national association of usually smaller schools. There are conferences within the NAIA just like the NCAA and the athletes and schools compete for national championships under the NAIA banner. The competition running wise is somewhere in between DII and DIII in the NCAA. Scholarships are offered by these schools which is why most of them decide to be part of the NAIA instead of NCAA DIII.

Linker wrote:

Scholarships are offered by these schools which is why most of them decide to be part of the NAIA instead of NCAA DIII.

So a school has to be below a certain size to be in NAIA? But they could still choose to be in NCAA DIII?

And does DIII not get to offer scholarships then? Why not? Is it DI only? DII?

As a Brit, where universities compete against each other it seems strange to me that all the best students don't compete against each other for a single national title. I guess the team title is considered more important than the individual one.

Do the different divisions ever meet up to race so the better DII, DIII and NAIA athletes can compete against the DI runners?

Pardon the ignorance - appreciate the answers. Thanks.

The NAIA has different eligibility requirements than NCAA.

So far as i know there is no size requirement but larger school generally compete at the more competitive DII and DI levels.

Universities from all different division compete with each other all the time. They just have separate championship level meets.

Let's be honest, no school actually wants to be part of the NAIA over the NCAA. They are part of the NAIA because they are shit schools, and are so far from even D2 compliance standards that they had to create a new federation for their "student"-athletes.

ever heard of the University of British Columbia one of the top universities. Yet another Letsrun jackass who sucks at life.

DIII has no scholarships. DI, DII, and DIII are all part of the NCAA, and have to follow its rules for academic eligibility, redshirting, and so on. NAIA isn't a part of the NCAA, and doesn't seem to have many rules at all.

DIII is supposed to be an opportunity for smaller schools to offer sports and not just get crushed all the time by the monster state schools with athletics budgets in the tens of millions of dollars.

DII and NAIA are really very similar, and NAIA has been losing schools over the year.

oxbridge wrote:

Let's be honest, no school actually wants to be part of the NAIA over the NCAA. They are part of the NAIA because they are shit schools, and are so far from even D2 compliance standards that they had to create a new federation for their "student"-athletes.

Exactly. NAIA is about half a step ahead of the special olympics.

The NAIA used to be quite strong at the top, but has been gutted the past five years. Most of the traditionally strong NAIA running schools are now NCAA II (Cedarville, Malone, Simon Fraser, Asuza, etc. etc. etc.).

The NAIA is now a shadow of it's former self, save a few Kenyans a few schools bring in (usually because they are not eligible for NCAA competition).

It's been a very sad demise, and the competition level in the NAIA is now pretty pathetic, and it appears it will only get worse in years to come.

Thanks, everyone!

Lots of NAIA haters on here today. Not sure why the mighty DI guys need to come down from their Ivory Towers to bash on the lowly NAIA. Can't be envy.

As many of the previous posters said NAIA is a collection of smaller private schools that are mostly religion based. DI obviously gets the lions share of the best runners. DII is generally stronger and much deeper. DIII is fairly competitive with the NAIA most years. Like DIII NAIA athletes want to run in college but don't have the times to compete at the top level. (Not a problem here as the letsrun boards are stocked with sub 14 5k guys)

Every once in awhile the NAIA ends up with a diamond. For example Bryan Clay graduated from Azusa Pacific which was then an NAIA school. They have since moved to DII along with a number of other schools as was noted by another poster.

D-III is such a waste of time. If there are good runners, let them go to D-I and walk on. Let them earn a spot

Each division in the NCAA has some distinct rules regarding things like eligibility, number of athletic scholarships that can be offerred, minimum number of sports that must be offerred, number of coaches allowed per sport, and so on.

DI schools must offer the largest number of sports and are allowed to offer the largest number of scholarships though generally they are not required to offer the maximum number. Those schools can have the most coaches per sport of the three.

DII schools are required to offer fewer sports, are allowed to grant fewer scholarships, have fewer coaches, etc. The eligibility requirements are less restrictive for DII schools than for DI.

DIII schools are not allowed to offer any athletic scholarships though many get around this by offering "need based" scholarships or something along those lines which the athlete would not get if he or she were not an athlete. The coaching staffs are smaller, required number of sports is the smallest of the three divisions.

Generally larger schools compete in DI and as schools get smaller they compete in DII or DIII thought there are many, MANY, notable exceptions to this. The divisions really are meant to allow schools some choice as to how many resources they want to devote to their athletic programs. If you read about the huge profits US universities are making from their football and basketball teams you're reading about DI schools. If you're reading about the huge losses schools are sustaining from those programs you're also likely reading about DI schools. As you move down through the divisions costs supposedly drop, (fewer scholarships, lower pay for officials and coaches, generally less travel to competitions though this is not true for some DII schools west of the Mississippi where things are pretty spread out and most schools are in either DI or DIII, fewer coaches with smaller salaries, etc.) and income from the sports is also smaller (no TV, fewer spectators, no money from Nike or addidas for wearing their gear,etc.)

Schools can choose their divisions and they can switch divisions. There is a process for that and schools that switch are not eligible for post season competition for several years.

The NAIA is a much smaller organization. Periodically an article will turn up in an education journal predicting its demise in the semi-near future. It has two divisions and the level of competition is probably comparable to the two lower NCAA divisions. Because the NAIA has fewer member schools by far than the NCAA does it is much easier to qualify for championship competitions than it is for NCAA schools. I don't think there's a real reason for the NAIA's existence. It just developed in earlier years when the NCAA wasn't as pervasive as it is now and has managed to survive. There had been a time when a school could belong to both organizations simultaneously. I have no idea if that's still possible.

Thanks, HRE.

I wouldn't really say NAIA is between DII and DIII competition-wise. Every year they'll have 1-2 athletes at the DII AA level or even higher, but as you go down the national list you soon realize depth is not the NAIA's strong suit. After the top 3-5ish depending on the event they're sending guys to nationals who wouldn't make a top 30 ranking in DIII. NAIA Nationals have to be so weird to watch as one 13:3x guy, one 14:0x guy, and a handful of 15:0x guys duke it out.

As always, some really good and fair comments on the NAIA and also some jelly-face, pimple-licking, childish jibber-jabber on the subject.

Obviously, the NAIA will have less depth, that's a given. Many of the top schools have gone NCAA II. That's a fact. It doesn't take a genius to know this, so I don't know the point, or the fascination of bashing the NAIA.

Like a previous poster said (HRE?)- the NAIA falls somewhere between DIII and DII.

It's also worth pointing out that probably 80% of NAIA kids never broke 2:00 or 4:40 in high school, so you see some massive improvements...and you know, every now and then there are even guys like Wieszorek (sp) that make a name for themselves. (he was a 2:14 guy in HS).

However, as long as there are old Kenyans that want opportunities in US colleges, the NAIA will always be tough up top. You can look at the results and see that yah, you have to be relatively fast to be a top naia guy.

Another thing I think you look at is that many of these NAIA coaches treat the national meet like the state track meet in high school and double and triple guys. For example, Kisorio ran 3:41 and 1:47 within about an hour...and on races #4 and 5. Because of the lower-depth in team dynamics, doubling probably is not a horrible idea if your team buys into it and you're trying to win a title.

For comparison-sake, I posted some national results below, which probably aren't fair to use, since championships are about place and not time (not to mention weather and altitude..div 2)....but I also don't think it's completely fair to look at performance lists, since most NAIA schools are midwestern and don't have budgets to fly to the big meets on the west coast that have now become essential in NCAA I/II to even make the national meet.

Most of the qualifying times come from small, nasty midwestern windy-storm meets where you have to solo or make deals with coaches/athletes to trade leads, etc. to post fast times. Run the 1500 solo in Olathe, Kansas at high noon in 25 mpw wind or get pulled around at Mt Sac in runner's paradise...which QT is going to be faster?

NCAA 800/1500 TOP 4 2012

*Granted they were @ altitude and bad weather

1 Andrew Graham SR Adams State 4:13.98 10

2 Keegan Calmes JR Adams State 4:14.50 8

3 Mack McLain SR Colorado Mines 4:15.05 6

4 Russell Drummond JR Colorado Mines 4:15.09 5

1 Boris Berian FR Adams State 1:54.54 10

2 Jermaine Blake SO Lincoln (Mo.) 1:55.27 8

3 Aduo Omot JR Augustana (S.D.) 1:55.27 6

4 Drew Windle FR Ashland 1:56.07 5

NCAA III 800/1500 TOP 4 2012

1 Jake Waterman JR Wabash 1:49.41 10

2 Mike Hutton SR St. Thomas (Minn.) 1:49.78 8

3 Matt Schafer JR Bethel (Minn.) 1:50.61 6

4 Joel Rietsema JR Hope 1:50.72 5

1 Dan Sullivan SO Wis.-Stevens Point 3:55.38 10

2 Jack Deichert SR Hamline 3:55.86 8

3 Kevin McCarthy SR Wabash 3:56.30 6

4 Chris Brown SR Brandeis 3:56.36 5

NAIA 800/1500 TOP 4 2012

1 1227 Kisorio, Silas SR Okla. Christian 1:47.98

2 1204 Kosgei, Joshua SO Northwood 1:48.37

3 926 Manring, Lucas SR Cen Methodist 1:49.84

4 952 Brown, Jasen JR Concordia (Ore.) 1:50.57

1 1227 Kisorio, Silas SR Okla. Christian 3:41.39N

2 1421 Kithuka, Kennedy JR Wayland Baptist 3:46.72

3 1217 Godwin, Adam SO Oklahoma Baptist 3:47.17

4 985 Coy, Andy JR Dakota State 3:47.66