Justin UNDEFEATED Gatlin

gigi b wrote:

Why does everyone get so butthurt about drugs? I couldn't care less who is using them, I just like to watch my favourite athletes run and Gatlin is a MF boss.

It probably has something to do with them being illegal and making "competition" pointless if it's not 100% earned but rather how good you are at putting a needle in you with the right dose at the right time.

It's boring to watch druggies "compete" against each other when their feats are completely unrealistic and everyone knows a normal hardworking human being could never accomplish them. Like hitting 70 homeruns in a season, flying by everyone as you bike up a mountain, or running 9.59 while doing a cartwheel through the finish line.

It's boring sport made for idiots that watch sportscenter. It's like looking at fake tits all day while you get botox injections.

misewell b wrote:

It probably has something to do with them being illegal and making "competition" pointless if it's not 100% earned but rather how good you are at putting a needle in you with the right dose at the right time.

It's boring to watch druggies "compete" against each other when their feats are completely unrealistic and everyone knows a normal hardworking human being could never accomplish them. Like hitting 70 homeruns in a season, flying by everyone as you bike up a mountain, or running 9.59 while doing a cartwheel through the finish line.

It's boring sport made for idiots that watch sportscenter. It's like looking at fake tits all day while you get botox injections.

Wow. Well said.

d--

Doping is a strict liability offense, it requires no intent. Whether he was "set up" or not, metabolites of banned substances were found in his system, and he was therefore "guilty".

It is entirely possible that he was both on drugs then and now. It is also entirely possible that both times, he was unaware of the fact.

Future possible performances have no bearing on whether metabolites are found in an athlete's body.

Who knows, if he was juiced back then and went 9.76/9.77, maybe he was nowhere near his peak and can do that time, or faster, now that he is at his peak--clean.

BTW, this time adjusts to 9.89, a time he has already achieved on the season. I don't see him having gotten any better throughout the year. I maintain that he can only get to somewhere around 9.85 adjusted.

If he stays at 9.89 adjusted, he might--MIGHT--sneak in for a bronze. Bolt will go faster, and there is a very good chance that both Powell and Blake will go faster, not to mention Bledman and Gay coming along well.

If he can get to 9.85 adjusted, I think there's a decent chance that he'll medal--but he seems to be stuck at 9.89

Nice place to be stuck, unless you're running against the Jamaicans.

I thought that Rodgers reacted very well to the gun and that he got moving well, same with Gatlin. Gay and Kimmons both just ran out of the blocks, Gay less so, and Kimmons faster.

A good slow-mo vid is here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_mhw5LH16o&feature=related

I like Gatlin's angles, but it is difficult to see where he is going to get any additional benefit...maybe at the finish. It looked like Gay was gaining on him in the last half of the race.

Gay's race adjusts to only 9.95, and by that measure looks slightly inferior to his race in NYC. It actually looked worse to me, but after running 2 other races, and surviving, that is a great result for him. If he had run the same race as in NYC, he would have been basically even with Gatlin.

Gay can definitely improve, however, and relatively easily I think relative to Gatlin. If he doesn't burn himself out between now and London, I wouldn't be surprised to see him faster there than Gatlin, especially since there will be only 3 rounds this year--at least in the early rounds.

Demps got schooled, he looked downright sluggish next to Kimmons.

Dix is f'd, that really sucks for him.

Who will be the US relay? It looks mediocre, if it has Rodgers and Bailey on it, with maybe Patton in the prelims subbing for Gay. Rodgers is so consistent, but it looked like Bailey made up the ground in the last 25m of the race.

So much for the promising college guys, they absolutely failed to step up this year.

Patton, a close 5th, and only .03 out of third--that is fantastic. Hats off to him. He has damned well earned his position as a relay alternate, he is clearly better than anybody else except maybe Kimmons.

Isn't that what we watch all day anyway on reality tv?

why so mad about merritt? all he did was viagra

Sprintgeezer wrote:

It looked like Gay was gaining on him in the last half of the race.

Gay's race adjusts to only 9.95, and by that measure looks slightly inferior to his race in NYC. It actually looked worse to me, but after running 2 other races, and surviving, that is a great result for him. If he had run the same race as in NYC, he would have been basically even with Gatlin.

Gay can definitely improve, however, and relatively easily I think relative to Gatlin. If he doesn't burn himself out between now and London, I wouldn't be surprised to see him faster there than Gatlin, especially since there will be only 3 rounds this year--at least in the early rounds.

Demps got schooled, he looked downright sluggish next to Kimmons.

Geezer,

There aren't any start lists available for the 200 at the moment, but are Gay and Gaitlin running the 200? I think Gay could run Gaitlin down in the 200 since he does appear to have better top end speed.

no, gay has said a bunch of times he's focussing on just the 100 because of his injury

wdmco wrote:

why so mad about merritt? all he did was viagra

The biggest performance enhancer of all.

Doping and steroids and all that crap don't even do anything. It's all just a mental trick to make you think you can run faster. Then when you do you get caught. Gatlin proves this by running about the same as before. I bet if Gatlin beats Bolt and is proven to be clean all you guys will be sucking his D and saying he's the greatest. I for one won't care since the 100 is more of a circus event. It's good for a few seconds of excitement and then you can move on to the real events.

Geezer, I enjoy your sprinting commentary and you are obviously very knowledgeable about the sprints, this is why i don't understand your uncharacteristic spewing hatred whenever talking about Solinsky.

No, no one I know will be saying he's (Gatlin) the greatest if he beats Bolt. That was really a dumb statement, sbeefyk1.

No respect for Gatlin because he will not acknowledge his past. No respect for NBC because they will not raise the issue. Where is Jim Gray when you need him?

Barring an injury with Bolt, it will be a moot point anyway. Gatlin has no shot at beating Bolt.

gigi b wrote:

Why does everyone get so butthurt about drugs? I couldn't care less who is using them, I just like to watch my favourite athletes run and Gatlin is a MF boss.

Why? Because it is cheating. Simple.

So you are Ok with cheating in sports? That would tend to speak to character.

That is why people get upset.

I can't stand to speak the cheats name. Any of them. And I think they should be not just banned for four years but for life. Yes banned for life. That would pretty much put an end to it. ONE STRIKE AND YOUR OUT.

coach d wrote:Now that he's within 0.03 if his supposed dugged-up time that he wasn't supposed to approach...

this run is far superior to his deleted 9.77

that was run in something like 90 - 95F - air as thin as nairobi due to the heat

this run was in something like 60F with intermittent rain thruout - poor conditions for sprinting

he's a a lot faster now than in '06

i easily see him going 9.75 basic in london, which woud beat blake ( i see him as a 9.75 - 9.80 basic ) & give bolt a damn hard race !

Sprintgeezer adjust for the wet track and the last finger waving stride and Gatlin, he's mid 9.7's.

If he can get his rt down to .145 and work on his right leg strength/flexibility no reason he isn't a threat for 2nd and low 9.7's.

Gatlin is much faster than he looks, the wind almost a non factor because of the other conditions. You had very high humidity (thick air) on a wet track surface. This cost all competitors significantly. Wet conditions also favor longer striders like Gatlin. Honestly this reason alone probably cost Rodgers a spot behind Bailey.

He showed improvement over his 9.87 in Doha despite the wind differential.

As for Gay he was completely out of it and not running seriously for the conditions. Safest 9.86 I've ever seen from any athlete, with the exception of Bolt's 9.85 jog in the prelims in 08.

Make no mistake these two guys are locked in a battle with Blake for second. It may look like Blake has experience but he has yet to face all these guys in shape and in a final. In the relay, Bailey and Rodgers in the 4x1 and you got yourself a toss up for Gold AND a WR since Jamaica's 3 and 4 are weak.

2 time doper coached by a doper

gigi b wrote:

Why does everyone get so butthurt about drugs? I couldn't care less who is using them, I just like to watch my favourite athletes run and Gatlin is a MF boss.

You don't care if people in your business are stealing money from you?

Do not care wrote:

Gatlin is much faster than he looks, the wind almost a non factor because of the other conditions. You had very high humidity (thick air) on a wet track surface. This cost all competitors significantly. Wet conditions also favor longer striders like Gatlin. Honestly this reason alone probably cost Rodgers a spot behind Bailey.

High humidity does not make the air thick. Quite the opposite, actually.

Do not care----hmmm...

The Ben Johnson finger really didn't cost him any time...maybe if he had stayed low and leaned he could have gotten another .01 or .02...maybe.

As far as RT goes, his was .168, .01 worse than the average of the field at .158; in the prelim he went .172, and in the semi .170

In Doha he was .171 (to Powell's .134), in Eugene .223 (to Ashmeade's .135), and in Daegu .189

So, he was hovering around .170 at the trials, which is better than his season average, although in Daegu in particular almost everybody's RT sucked.

The good news is that he is consistent, meaning that there is little chance that he will false start--the bad news is that he is consistently mediocre, never showing the flash of brilliance that could easily get him another .03-.04

Of course, RT is a funny thing, not necessarily meaningful unless someone is up around .200 I would suggest that all the top guys should aspire to measure somewhere around .150--that's quick, but still conservative enough to avoid a false-start.

Plus, the track was dry when the race was run, humid air is actually less dense than is dry air, and there was actually sun on the starting blocks, meaning they were getting some heat and probably didn't feel too bad. Certainly they would have gone faster in a better temperature.

I'm interested in your suggestion that wet conditions (which didn't exist in the final) favor longer striders--got any more info?

Gatlin's problem, IMHO, derives from his arm swing--it is too long, and doesn't enable enough leg turnover at high speed. I know, I know, splitting hairs, he actually has good turnover at speed--but it needs to be better to be competitive with Bolt/Powell. Gatlin really strides it out, but I think that he has maxxed-out his particular high-speed form. That long stride can make for a marginally longer contact time, which is good during the drive phase as it allows more time for force application to the track--but at high speed, force becomes less important and leg speed becomes more critical, IMHO.

If he's going to stick with that form, he will need to find the additional .10-.20 within the first 60m. I haven't seen any splits from his races this year, so I don't know if he is close to the magical 6.32-6.34 first 60m that is required to run a real 9.7x and below. If he IS near that, there is really no way he is going to go .10-.20 faster. It is difficult to believe that he has been any slower than, say, 6.42-6.44 over the first 60m, meaning that he could, if lucky, find another .10, in an ideal world.

But that would get him to only a 9.79 basic which, though certainly excellent, is still behind the capabilities of Bolt and IMHO Powell, and only slightly ahead of Blake from last year. The thing in Gatlin's favor is that he can produce great performances in a championship final, and the only other serious contender with similar proven ability is Bolt (unless you consider Gay a serious contender).

I still think Gatlin's stuck. He might get another .05 from the first 60m, which would get him in the vicinity of 9.85 basic, but I can't see him going any faster than that if he maintains his current top-end form. If he does get that 9.85 basic in the final, I think that's a reasonable shot for silver or bronze.

Looking up some stats, Gatlin's RT in his 9.77 in Doha was .166, so that hasn't changed much...

He covered his first 60m there in 6.39, so he's pretty close to that, too, considering the time here was about the same, and the wind was almost identical (+1.8 in Eugene, +1.7 in Doha).

From that same source, Powell's 60m splits in his two 9.77's were 6.39 and 6.37, so it is true that upper 6.3x will get those two into the mid-high 9.7x range with a good wind.