1200 Hypothetical: Ngeny vs El Guerrouj vs Coe

jennifer cruz wrote:Darling, we all see what we want to see

eh ?

An argument can be made that Wilson Kipketer could have run 1:40.5

moron

it's simple physics

learn basic science

48.3^2 / 52.9^2

is greater energy expenditure than

50.0^2 / 51.2^2

and he might have been the best 1200 meter runner in history

who are you drivelling about ???

It is not likely, but it is possible

who are you drivelling about ???

I would say that Kipketer never ran a 1500/mile with any degree of seriousness

yes

so ???

much as you appear to believe that Lagat never ran an 800 seriously

elite euro clocking in '01 or '04 ???

Ventolin, darling, you're too stupid to understand that even when you're apparently agreeing with me, you sound angry and hostile. You also are too stupid to comprehend that we all see what we want to see. You argue from preconceived notions and then attempt to make the "facts" conform to these notions. You are not alone, but any pretense to being scientific simply makes you appear even more preposterous than you already do. Now have another drink, darling, and take a deep breath, before getting yourself all worked up so that you may type your next post, beginning with M-O-R-O-N. Those keys must be worn out by now, as are many of your old tired arguments. Goodnight, darling.

jennifer cruz wrote:

Ventolin, darling, you're too stupid to understand that even when you're apparently agreeing with me, you sound angry and hostile. You also are too stupid to comprehend that we all see what we want to see. You argue from preconceived notions and then attempt to make the "facts" conform to these notions. You are not alone, but any pretense to being scientific simply makes you appear even more preposterous than you already do. Now have another drink, darling, and take a deep breath, before getting yourself all worked up so that you may type your next post, beginning with M-O-R-O-N. Those keys must be worn out by now, as are many of your old tired arguments. Goodnight, darling.

Ms. Cruz at no point during your incoherent ramblings did you come anywhere close to anything resembling an answer. We are all now dumber for having read your statement "darling". I award you 0/10 troll points, and may god have mercy on your pitiful soul. Darling.

Please tell me what the question was. I am aware that you're lying, as you're not capable of getting any "dumber." You'd have to no longer be a sentient creature. Again, what was the question I was allegedly failing to answer?

nice topic

needs cleaning up...

Definitely Noah Ngeny, not a question at all. Little bit faster than Coe over 1000m and much faster over 1500m/Mile - so it`s not a question here. And El Guerrouj - don`t know why he is mentioned here at all. No significant times below 1500m.

you are forgetting he actually has the fastest 1200 ever recorded? 2:44.75? I think that is why he is mentioned...

photofinish wrote:

you are forgetting he actually has the fastest 1200 ever recorded? 2:44.75? I think that is why he is mentioned...

All 3 were able to run faster - we all know this. Can`t see the point of this intermediate time.

said88 wrote:

Definitely Noah Ngeny, not a question at all. Little bit faster than Coe over 1000m and much faster over 1500m/Mile - so it`s not a question here. And El Guerrouj - don`t know why he is mentioned here at all. No significant times below 1500m.

What you fail to realize is that El Guerrouj never ran an 800 or 1000 after 1995. 3 years before he set his 1500 WR. At that time, he could only run 3:31 for 15. If he did run a serious 800, he could have very well went sub-1:43. And if he could do that, he could come close to the 1000 record. This should put him in the discussion for the 1200.

:|} wrote:

What you fail to realize is that El Guerrouj never ran an 800 or 1000 after 1995. 3 years before he set his 1500 WR. At that time, he could only run 3:31 for 15. If he did run a serious 800, he could have very well went sub-1:43. And if he could do that, he could come close to the 1000 record. This should put him in the discussion for the 1200.

I doubt El G could run sub 1:43. I doubt he could run close to the 1000m WR.

said88 wrote:

I doubt El G could run sub 1:43. I doubt he could run close to the 1000m WR.

Then what do u suggest he could have ran in '98?

Don`t know. Since he hasn`t run below 1500 at all it`s just speculation. Maybe 2:14 low and 1:44 low or 1:43 high???

study this race

take the initial 400 ( eliminating flying start ) & add last lap & interim fastest 200m

that gives

~ high-2'14

El-G 2004 "brute force" win. ran wide, little drafting, 1:46 last 800. Lagat was set up perfectly, did not run wide and had a free ride. Got to respect these dubious tactics.

Coe runs like a scared rabbit, clips heels, runs wide, little or no drafting, looking around all the time. and he doubled while running 3"32 final. has a gear not seen in the last 100m of a fast race.

3 August 1984 800m 1:45.71 1h Los Angeles, USA Olympic Games

4 August 1984 800m 1:46.75 3qf Los Angeles, USA Olympic Games

5 August 1984 800m 1:45.51 1sf Los Angeles, USA Olympic Games

6 August 1984 800m 1:43.64 2 Final Los Angeles, USA Olympic Games

9 August 1984 1500m 3:45.30 2h Los Angeles, USA Olympic Games

10 August 1984 1500m 3:35.81 3sf Los Angeles, USA Olympic Games

11 August 1984 1500m 3:32.53 1 Final Los Angeles, USA Olympic Games

Got to give both Coe and El-G 53(low) sec all the way.

I guess in a race between the two, a peak Coe wins barely by drafting off El-G. In a time trial or a run in lanes, El-G wins by several meters.

ventolin^3 wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTNBLDrkJH8

study this race

take the initial 400 ( eliminating flying start ) & add last lap & interim fastest 200m

that gives

~ high-2'14

In the extreme, I`m sure he was able to run sub 2:05: 50sec + 250m in 10min + 25sec + 250m in 10min + 50sec.

For sure I know it`s something different in a world class 1500m. But still I can`t see the point he was able to run a (or close to a) WR 1000m. Maybe 2:14 low is a little pesimistic, maybe 2:13 high I would say... But who knows?

that is a nonsense extrapolation

there was no 10' rest for him in that race

he did a high-2'14 in confines of 3'29.9 of activity

i'm not offering any value of how fast he couda gone for 1k that day, but it sure as hell was much, much quicker than high-2'14

ventolin^3 wrote:

that is a nonsense extrapolation

It`s not nonsens; I`m sure he was able to do that.

I just wanted to show you that it`s not an logical conclusion that when he runs 2:14,8 in different parts of a 1500m, that he was able to run much faster in a 1000m.

I would agree, when he has run 2:14,8 in AVERAGE in the 1500m - than he definitely was capable of a much faster 1000m.

I still have very big doubst he was capable of a close to WR 1000m; I doubt he could run sub 2:13

This would be a great race and impossible to predict the winner, however: El G would almost undoubtedly attempt to be the front-runner and the others would probably allow this to happen. Being fantastic finishers, I give both Coe and Ngeny an advantage in this scenario.

I would put my money on Coe in a one-off race but Coe could be inconsistent at times and I believe that, if they raced 10 times, perhaps Ngeny would win more contests than not.

El G just doesn't have the track record at any distance shorter than 1500m to deserve full confidence here. I think he would be excellent over 1200m but his racing style would not be as effective here and I think he'd be the third place finisher more often than not.

said88 wrote:It`s not nonsens; I`m sure he was able to do that

so coud every 1'50 guy who ever lived

I just wanted to show you that it`s not an logical conclusion that when he runs 2:14,8 in different parts of a 1500m, that he was able to run much faster in a 1000m

we are talking 2'14-high in a 3'29.9 not in a 3'38

if you of believe that this accomplishment does not with 100% certainty indicate a substantially quicker than high-2'14 intrinsic ability, you have no clue about the sport

I would agree, when he has run 2:14,8 in AVERAGE in the 1500m - than he definitely was capable of a much faster 1000m

stating the absolutely obvious offers nothing to the topic

I still have very big doubst he was capable of a close to WR 1000m; I doubt he could run sub 2:13

morceli ran 2'13.7 in same year as 3'29.2

use your brain & think what that indicates for a 3'26.0 guy