1200 Hypothetical: Ngeny vs El Guerrouj vs Coe

Ryan would beat them all

Ngeny. 1000 or 1200 was probably his best distance, unfortunately for him.

Definitely Ngeny.

DanDan wrote:

Ngeny. 1000 or 1200 was probably his best distance, unfortunately for him.

Right, it's too bad this prevented him from winning an Olympic gold medal...I feel sorry for him.

Coe was all-out in his 1000 WR. Maybe too much so as he went through 800m in 1:44.56 and faded in the last 200m. He talks about in "Born to Run."

::holds up two fingers in disbelief::

El Guerrouj would win. He has more speed than people give him credit for. When he won the 1500 in the Olypmics, his final 800 was in 1:46 and his final 400 was in 51. El G was more of a 1:42 800m runner (as stated before), and with his endurance, he could have beat Ngeny and Coe in the final 400, but to beat Coe he would have to run it like a time trial because Coe clearly had the best all out speed and kick.

We do know that El G has the fastest 1200 ever run: 2:44.75 en route to a 3:27. I put him at 2:39.98 all out, Ngeny at 2:40.4, and Coe at 2:40.7.

Nice thread. I never realized El G's 800 pr was so slow. I assumed he had run the 800 more than that. I can't base it off of anything empirical but, damn, El G just looks so much faster than Ngeny or Coe. This is especially true when you watch the 3:26 world record video. It almost makes me sick how fast he is.

jesse was a friend wrote:

Intergalactic wrote:

::holds up two fingers in disbelief::

Moron, I was obviously being sarcastic, and I knew some idiot wouldn't be able to pick up on it...

i think he was doing it more as an El G thing, like after he got 5k gold and held up the two fingers:

and i say if it's slow, then coe cause of his blistering kick. honest paced, either coe or ngeny for same reason as before unless el g pushed them hard the last half of the race. all out ngeny cause thats basically his distance

Well, I apologize if I misunderstood the guy, but...

Ngeny beat ElG even though ElG had his teammate rabbit for 800 meters in an Olympic final.

Carnivore 69 wrote:We do know that El G has the fastest 1200 ever run: 2:44.75 en route to a 3:27. I put him at 2:39.98 all out, Ngeny at 2:40.4, and Coe at 2:40.7.

pretty damn good

i get them as follows :

hicham

~ 47.7 / 1'42.8 -> 2'11.5 , 2'40.7 , 3'25.4

coe

~ 45.7 / 1'41.4 -> 2'10.8 , 2'40.9 , 3'27.2

noah

~ 47.3 / 1'42.6 -> 2'11.5 , 2'41.0 , 3'26.0

i'm leaning to hicham , coe & noah in that order

for earlier question, it's possible noah was in ~ 1'42.6 shape at his peak ( perfect race ) - interestingly that is slightly quicker than hicham, but by 1k they are inseparable & then hicham pulls away at longer distances

might as well thrown in bernie :

~ 47.6 / 1'42.9 -> 2'11.8 , 2'41.2 , 3'26.1

i think he mighta even had faster open 400 speed than hicham but the 800 was maybe tenth shy & that's all it took to keep him 2nd fiddle

Coe if they had all been born in the same year

Actually, the way Ventolin is calculating the winner, he is giving everybody an 800 either much faster than they ever ran, or a little faster than they ran.

So, I guess you'd have to give David Rudisha, at minimum, a 1:40.7, just to be consistent, and then I think Rudisha would be the one to beat in a 4 man race, even at 1200 meters, as he could probably hang on long enough to outkick them, especially without rabbits.

Actually, the way Ventolin is calculating the winner, he is giving everybody an 800 either much faster than they ever ran, or a little faster than they ran.

So, I guess you'd have to give David Rudisha, at minimum, a 1:40.7, just to be consistent, and then I think Rudisha would be the one to beat in a 4 man race, even at 1200 meters, as he could probably hang on long enough to outkick them, especially without rabbits.

I wonder should Steve Cram at his best be featured amongst those three?

For instance, for arguments sake, discounting Coe’s 1.41.73, always the subject of a timing controversy amongst some die-hards - if one takes an average of his next five best 800 times - he ran 1.43.24.

Cram, not considering himself an 800mt runner - the average of his fastest five 800 runs was 1.43.26.

Coe’s time for the 1000 - 2.12.88.

I saw Cram run 2.12.88 in very unfavourable conditions at a Gateshead meeting.

Cram’s 1500 best is marginally better than Coe’s and he ran a 3.46.32 mile compared to Coe’s 3.47.33.

Unfortunately, he peaked in between Olympics.

jennifer cruz wrote:So, I guess you'd have to give David Rudisha, at minimum, a 1:40.7, just to be consistent

he's probably worth that

in his 2 wrs, both times tangui is about 5m ahead most of the time offering no drafting advantage ( it's probably rudy's fault for being lazy & not chasing after him hard enough &/or tangui doing poor job & not throttling back ) - worth maybe 1s/lap or 0.5s for drafting from 200 - 400 :

he essentially ran a solo race :

contrast that to coe's last wr where he got textbook drafting from billy to the bell & virtually full drafting advantage :

Coe

cram woud struggle a bit

the most generous estimate i get for him is :

~ 46.4 / 1'42.3 -> 2'11.7 , 2'41.8 , 3'28.0

throw in morceli as well :

~ 47.6 / 1'43.1 -> 2'12.1 , 2'41.6 , 3'26.8 , 7'23.2 , 12'55.0

those 2 woud have a good battle