How long? Couch to sub18 min 5k.

Cool. Yeah, keep us posted. I like these threads where someone decides to take up running and gives us updates on their progress throughout the year(s). Especially when that person actually, ya know, makes progress. Haha.

Anyways, your plan to cut back on the speed work and build your mileage to 40 mpw over the next 12 weeks is a good idea. 25-30 mpw isn't really enough mileage to reach your potential in 5k/10k racing. Many serious 5k/10k runners run a minimum of 50-60 mpw and some do 100+. Of course, it takes a while to safely build up to that kind of weekly mileage, and you may not be interested in doing that much. Either way, your short term goal of 40 is good for now.

The point I was trying to make is that there are a lot of folks who will never make it, even if they try. You need some level of talent for sub18 or A LOT OF WORK. Some decently fit soccer player for example may be able to do it with 4 weeks of training, others may try for years.

Some folks react fast to training for others it takes years and suddenly they have a breakthrough race.

I started running when I was in my teens, so it was a mix between growing up and naturally getting faster and training.

Of course my statistics are made up but look at you random 5k road race in the US. 80% finish over 20min. Ok, I made this up, too. But it's probably close to reality.

You're right, Nutella1. But in the first post our OP stated that he had already run under 20 with only 6 months of training. So I think this information already establishes that the OP is at least a little above the average and it doesn't really make sense to tell him what the average hobby jogger can and can't do. I would say based on the info he's already given, he's probably quite capable of a sub-18.

This might not be typical, but I will throw in my experiences.

I was a 400/800 guy in college (not really fast,but OK) and have never run more than 10 miles per week until my mid 30s.

Then, I decided to attack 5K/10Ks and after 2 month of 20MPW training, I hit 19'15". Then, it took me a year of 40MPW to get to sub 18'. When I up my mileage to 60MPW for another year, I got to sub 17 (16'47"), mind you, that was at the age of 38 (Yes, I have speed, I still run 400 at 54" and 800 in 2'3" at that age).

I kept on doing that 50-60MPW training and at the age of 40, I did a 5K in 16'31" and that is my best so far.

So, depends on your talent (more or less than me), you can achieve it faster or slower or never. But, mileage with some speedwork is the key.

I can shed some light on this. At age 30, I started training seriously for my first 5K. This was May of 2010. I'd say I was in average shape. My first time trial prior to the race was a 3-miler which I did at a 6:57 pace. So yes, I stunk by "serious runner" standard. I ran about 30 miles per week for about 5 weeks and in June and ran 20:37.

Throughout the summer of 2010, I averaged 46 mpw and in early September of 2010 ran a 19:07. I had maybe one or two solid speed workouts per week.

This winter I averaged nearly 50 mpw over a 15 week stretch with two intense speed workouts per week. This past weekend I ran 17:52.

So to break it down for you:

June 2010: 20:37 5K

September 2010: 19:07 5K

May 2011: 17:52 5K

i kinda like running wrote:

You're right, Nutella1. But in the first post our OP stated that he had already run under 20 with only 6 months of training.

sub18 and sub20 are big differences. I can run sub20 without having run once in a year. But I'd never be able to go sub18 with 0 training at all.

I have a friend who runs since 7 or 8 years, mostly Marathons, working his way down from 3:30 to BQ to sub3 and only recently did he run just above 18 min. It can take a long time.

I would drop the 3 workouts down to 2 as you said and make sure you are doing 1 long run. But do 1 of your workouts as shorter faster stuff with longer recoveries or you will only turn to be a plodder

Most fitness running clubs have a few runners who are a bit handy. Where do you live that bit does not make sense? You don't need to talk when running anyway just follow what they do

See what you do in the 5km you might turn out to be better over the shorter distance.

If you have the desire to do it, don't get injured and don't expect overnight results you will do the times you want. 27 is young as well if you are patient in waiting results.

So, to get back to the original question then, the factors are clearly natural talent and training. It seems that most people think that with appropriate training, running sub-18 can take years, but is accomplishable by most people with a modicum of talent, but that people of above average talent could do it in a matter of months, given reasonable training? Obviously the optimum would be smart training of 50 miles + per week and loads of natural talent!

What about this scenario:

16:45 5K runner 21 years ago.....

Last time I ran with any consistency ran 18:00. That was 5 years ago running 20-30 MPW.

Haven't run a step in 5 years and am about 15lbs over my running weight.

How long until I can run sub 18? This thing reads like a lazy equation.

There is no answer because the question is too vague. No one has a clue what "typical" is. The best you will get is stories but which story is relevant to you will remain unknown until you either do it or give up.

The amount of training required to go sub18 will be a function of your genetics, your environment (starting at conception) and how your physiological development responded (and responds) to your environment. We all inherit different physiological parameters such as muscle fiber type or heart size or musculoskeltal gearing. We all ran different amounts growing up and this will affect our time. We all have experience different levels of activity/inactivity since graduating from college and embarking on careers. A graduate student that walks around campus and up and down stairs and a few blocks to the coffee shop has very different (and probably relevant) activity levels than a stock broker that sits in a cubicle all day. Different genotypes will respond (improve) differently to different types of training; how do we find the optimal training for our genotype? Some genotypes won't respond much at all to a variety of training and others will have huge responses to many types of training. And of course there will be a huge difference in the training itself.

So no, there is no "typical" and anyone saying that 99% of people can never go sub18 or 99% of runners can go sub18 after 6 months of training are throwing out completely fictional numbers that simply reflect their bias.

FWIW: Starting at age 39 it took me 5 years to go sub18. The five years was punctuated by substantial periods of no running due either to injury or to taking winters off to ski. I've never trained for a 5K so I do essentially zero speedwork - when I've done something resembling speedwork it was at 10K pace. I've done fewer that 5 days of Daniels I pace intervals in 6 years. I race about one 5K per year. I do a fair number of tempo runs (from typical Daniels type to Malmo type) throughout the training season. And I enjoy long hill repeats (say 1/4 to 1 mile) although I only get a few of these in, usually early in the season. My mileage over this time increased from mid 30s to mid 50s per week although again, I only get about 3-4 months/year of solid training in (50+ mpw) as I've typically built up slowly during the spring. This added up to about 1150 miles last year (but again, I get in 4 months of xc skiing in the winter).

I am 21 so this might be less helpful, but I trained for a few marathons before ever running a 5k, and did one in training about a year into my running career and went 17:47 without really pushing. That was off of 0 speed work and relatively low mileage (just coming back from injury so around 50 MPW).

Build your base fitness for a longer race, get stronger by running hills, and then it should be fairly easy to get sharp enough to sustain that 17:59 pace.

also take a look at this training plan from Pete McGill. Someone on the forums turned me on to this and it is really worthwhile. Its called solving the 5k puzzle and probably offers more substantial advice than I have provided!

http://runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=19258&PageNum=1

"I can run sub20 without having run once in a year."

I'm very jealous. If I don't run for a whole year I can barely manage sub-30. It takes me a good 2-3 months to get back down into the low 20s. And then another year or so before I'm running in the 18min realm.

I did it in 8 months. I'm 23.

Last Feburary I quit smoking, started running on my own a few times a week, and then found a local group and ran with them twice a week. I started running 4-5 times a week, averaging about 40-50 km a week along with core work basically everyday.

In October we ran a time trial and I ran a 17:42 and the next week ran a 10:11 3k. That said, I wasn't fat, started and ended below 130 pounds.

You just have to be motivated, you buttheads are so cynical sometimes.

Not so much my friend. There is a difference between being 23 and 27yrs old. An even bigger difference between 23 and 30. If we were all 16 it would take 2-3 months from couch to sub-18min.

Loads of great replies, personal anecdotes, and advice. Too many to respond to individually but many thanks nonetheless.

Woops, meant that as a general reply. Still figuring out this posting software stuff.

I'm not sure if anyone is still interested in this thread, but given that POP said he'd be interested to hear how I got on with racing, here goes. I ran a local 5k today and, after 5 and a bit months of running after having done pretty much nothing for the past 5 years, I ran 18:57. This was despite getting carried away and running a 5:50 first mile which had me stopping a couple of times in the last couple of km to catch breath (I know, I felt/feel deeply ashamed). All things considered, I'm pretty sure that with better pace judgment I could've ran close to 18:30.

I'm running 25 miles a week max at the moment, but have built up steadily from just 12 when I first started, so I don't think it's too outlandish to have a sub 18 target for maybe 4 months time, if I can continue to build to 40 miles a week +.

A sub 18 in less than a year is certainly doable for plenty of people, I'd guess.

Ive been playing "soccer" my whole life and after a good preseason i was able to do the 5k in 18:31.

But it is true that most of it is just genetics, i dont know how it would be to start from scratch, but i guess it would be pretty tough.

preponderanceofpondering wrote:

Allowing for the myriad of obvious circumstantial and personal variances, how long would/should it take a healthy, mid-20s male to go from never running to a sub 18 min 5k?(And no, "17:59" is not really a unique or beautiful answer)

Then, how much longer would/should it take after 6-7 months of building mileage to the mid 30s and running a mid 19 5k?

Any ideas? One year total? 9 months total? Two years total?

Ballpark figures would be ballimous.

Way more information required for this question to even make sense. Two domains for you to fill us in on:

1. What do you mean by "healthy"?

- Ambulatory and without disease? Playing rec-league soccer three nights a week?

- Elite athletic background? None?

The answer to you question is going to be different by more than a "ballpark" for a 240-pound lardass whose heartrate hasn't been over 80 from since childhood, vs a former athlete who just switched into running. As in different by an order of magnitude.

2. What do you mean by "building mileage to mid 30s"?

- If you're doing the usual jogger thing and running four five-milers during the week and a long run on the weekend, but with little or nothing at <5:45/mile, it's possible I could get you to sub-18 in 12 weeks.

- If you've got to 19:mid with six months of appropriate intervals and tempos and, well, you've got a longer road ahead. Let's say 6-18 months for your ballpark, until you provide more information.

In short, if you truly got from "nothing" to ~19:30 in six months, you should be able to get to 18:00. (i.e. If you've basically gone from probably 30:00 ability to 19:30.) If your improvement curve isn't that steep (i.e. if you've been pretty active all this time) I'd be less certain. (i.e. if your "baseline was something like 22-23)