Why are American college runners obsessed with cross country times?

Fellar,

The whole point is to run a short course and hang your hat on that misleading time as an 8k PR. For all similar purposes, it is also suggested you hang your hat on the 200 meters short 5k split as your 5k PR. This way you seem faster to everyone. I hope that helps.

Because people run the same courses every year, so there is some basis for comparison. Also, we tend to run standard distances in cross country (i.e. 5k, 10k) rather than just having a course that might be, say, 11k or 9k.

If we restricted on comparisons to times on the same course under similar circumstances, the comparisons may have some utility. However, when the course conditions and competitive make-up of the race change significantly times don't really mean much. Nevertheless, we plow forward with "course adjustment factors" in a relentless focus on time. The OP is right - we spend too much effort focused on time and not enough on place. I think that's part of American's make-up where kids have grown up thinking everyone deserves a ribbon. If we can say we've set a PR after 4 guys pass us in the last 50 meters, we can still say it was a good day.

This misses the point of why many of the comparisons are made. We do not get a lot of head-to-head comparisons, and when we do there are factors such as person X or Y was out (e.g., Ahmed at Dillenger). Thus, we shift through times and consider the conditions to assess comparative capabilities. You use what you have, although some people use this better than others (some might be said to misuse what they have, and on LetsRun, unfortunately, this is sometimes done deliberately).

I understand possibly using times to compare same course same conditions, etc Other than that the times are useless. The entire concept was drilled into our heads by ill informed high school coaches. Unfortunately, it has gotten to the point where the vast majority of college coaches don't know any better either.

Ray L wrote:

I understand possibly using times to compare same course same conditions, etc Other than that the times are useless. The entire concept was drilled into our heads by ill informed high school coaches. Unfortunately, it has gotten to the point where the vast majority of college coaches don't know any better either.

Come on, you do not believe this. Do you think that a 22:00 on the PreNats course is better than a 26:00 on the Dillenger course? If so, they what you assert, that times are useless, is wrong. Thus, it is an empirical question about how much information you can extract from the marks. There are all sorts of ways to use the marks. For instance, comparing what runners did versus other runners and then looking at their times on other courses.

Clearly, you would not been in the thick of it in determining the size of the universe [see if you can get that reference and by comparison the use of cross country marks across courses is child's play.]

As I said....Comparing times on the same course under the same conditions, assuming no changes to the course markings, layout, etc I don't see how that is any different then what you are saying. I can't for the life of me understand some of the recruitment letters I see where the coach asks for the athletes "best 5km cross country time."

From year to year or week to week it's good to see improvement. Our team runs two different courses 3 times a apiece (not my call) and runs another course twice. So it's easy to be able to tell if someone's improved.

Some meets around here are short and in those cases you just go by who is how far from who, but on one of the 4-5 "standard" courses in the area times matter.

A good friend of mine, Rik Ceulemans, is a 2:13 marathoner. He retired from competition last year but the race win that he values the most was his win at the Belgian National Cross Country Championships in 2007. I asked him what his time was, and he said "I can't remember."

I fully agree that Cross Country times are pointless, because of the variability in the lengths of the courses, and the terrain. I recently attended a XC race at Wilmington College in Ohio. I was surprised to find that the course was routed around a really nice mud pit, designed for Mud Volleyball. They should have sent the runners straight through the mud!