Who is running the CVS Downtown 5k?

You're saying an American citizen and elite athlete that won this race had to pay an entry and expenses for the race that he won?

And who exactly would this be unfair to? This may be the dumbest post I have ever seen... and I have seen a fair number of dumb posts (many contributed by yours truly).

Last I heard, there was no expectation or rule stating that fast guys need to make their presence known before lining up at a race.

As for the course... I always thought that the CVS course was pretty fast. You tend to see the elites runs slow because it can often be a month after they have peaked and its often tactical. This allows the "B" American's to stay in it longer and end up closer to the front. But its a flat course with really only 3 sharp turns. The uphill at the end takes away any kick, but the first mile is super fast. I would say that CVS is one of the faster road 5ks out there.

Conto wrote:

And who exactly would this be unfair to? This may be the dumbest post I have ever seen... and I have seen a fair number of dumb posts (many contributed by yours truly).

Overreact much?

Usually at a USA Champs an elite list is put together just like any major race so the people in the race now who they are racing against. Think if they didn't have a start list for the track champs. That would no fly

come on kids wrote:

Did they run the wrong way this year? The back folks sucked. Did they really pay 10 deep?

7 14:23 Tinney, Frank Ann Arbor MI

8 14:25 Jenkins, Nate Andover MA

9 14:30 Sanca, Ruben Dorchester MA

10 14:36 Dutille, Derek Lebanon NH

Women

6 16:52 Donovan, Jennifer Brighton MA

7 17:11 Vegh, Kristina Flagstaff AZ

8 17:16 Higgins, Lesley New York NY

9 17:24 Campbell, Jennifer Watertown MA

10 17:32 Anderson, Cheryl Branford CT

What do you want them to do, stay home? You can only race who shows up, theres nothing stopping these 14:30guys/17:20 women from entering and for this year that meant top 10.

Maybe you're really mad at the race director for not making a quality field for a US Championship, which would be legitimate since CVS usually has a lot more fast guys. But as I said, its a road race, these guys showed up and this is how it was played out.

The course it not fast. I know some years get a bit tactical, but saying th course is one of the faster 5k courses out there is a bit far fetched. Even when deep fields are put together 14:00 will always be top 5 and many times top 3.

4 of the top 5 Americans in the race this year have very good track prs and none of them could dip 14. Road races are more like cross, you can't compare courses and it is about racing for place.

Believe me, I would love for that to be the case. It would mean the 2 times I've run 16:25 on that course, I was in sub 16:00 track shape... I just don't believe it. Maybe 16:10 shape... but I would call that a fast course. If a road 5k is only 15 seconds slower then what I could run a track 5k, then I consider that fast. Maybe others consider that slow? No road race that isn't net downhill or in a straight line is going to be as fast as a track, so by definition, they're almost all slowER. But that doesn't make them all slow. In comparison to a course with lots of hills, CVS is fast. There are maybe 3 hard turns, and a small hill right at the end. Outside of that, its about as flat as it gets. I'm honestly not sure how you can find a 3.1 mile loop that would be much faster.

Its all subjective, though. I thought the New Haven 20k, despite 3 hills (one at mile 2, one around 10k if I remember correctly, and 1 at 10) was a fast course. Others say its not a fast course. When you compare it to Central Park, or some races I used to do in CT, its quite fast. But if you're coming from Florida where there isn't a hill in sight, I suppose you may think differently.

And while on the topic of New Haven... what would people say is a faster course... New Haven 20k or Philadelphia Half?

That's so odd. I believe you but it just seems strange that it wouldn't be faster. My impression was that that was one of the fastest 5k course I've ever been on. Of course I ran like crap but that's what happens when you go out too fast. The course itself seemed crazy fast.

Average Joe,

We're basically saying the same thing... CVS is a fast course. I was disagreeing with those saying its a slow course! I don't think its faster then a track, though. There are 3 or 4 hard turns that almost bring you to a stop, and the hill at the end clearly slows you down more then running on a track would. But outside of that, yes, I agree, its very fast.

The only reason the elites don't run faster is that its at the end of their season and they've already peaked and its usually tactical. If you look at many of the guys in the 14:30-15:30 range, their track times line up pretty well with that. Its the elite crowd that is significantly slower, and everyone else is within 10-20 seconds of what they would run on a track. If you think each hard turn takes 2sec off your time, that's 6-8 seconds there, and that last hill, depending on how much your redlining, could take another 4-12 seconds off what you would be able to come home on on a track.

I PR'd by 21 seconds, but I was expecting to do at least that. If you check out the course map, there are more like (1) 45 degree, (9) 90 degree turn, and (1) 180 degree "U" bend. Not sure how that compares to 12.5 laps around a track. Has anyone ever measured pace drop around the turns?

http://www.cvsdowntown5k.com/courseMaps/5k.html

I agree on the point that the course for a road course is fairly fast. But early in this thread people are saying that it was crazy that a guy running 14:15 would get paid. Lets just say that would be around a 13:55 effort on the track. I think that deserves a little bit of money if you ask me. Professional baseball players, can strike out and still get paid so saying that I professional runner should get paid if they don't run a super fast time is bogus. Also road races seem to shape up more like cross races. With the course turning and going up and down packs get broke up easy and times will be slower.