Marathon Training Thread - Week Ending 6/27

Goal Race: Twin Cities (10/3)

Goal Time: 2:32

My week went pretty well, but I definitely found myself hitting the brakes more often this week.

M: am - 6 easy (7:10) / pm - 10 easy (6:50)

Tu: am - 6 easy (7:25) / pm - 8 moderate (6:35) - with random fartlek mixed in (no set distance or pace for each interval)

W: am - 6 easy (7:20) / pm - 12 easy (6:45)

Th: am - 6 easy (7:25) / pm - 9 w/ 4xmile @ 75% effort w/ 3:00 jog recovery (5:33, 5:37, 5:31, 5:30)

F: early am - 8 easy (7:20) / late am - 6 easy (7:15)

Sa: am - 8 easy (7:35) / pm - 4 easy (6:55)

Su: 18 easy (6:40)

Weekly Total - 107 miles

YTD - 2,111 miles

This coach that I'm following is a huge advocate of fartleks and running workouts off feel...hence the 4xmile @ 75% effort. We had no idea what that exactly meant, but we just ran fast (slow?) enough to get the blood pumping and be under control every interval. I guess the point was to finish feeling like you could've done that workout again if asked...so I suppose it was a success. This upcoming week will be a scheduled down week (self prescribed), and ending with a 5k on July 4th. I'm pretty excited about this race, last year I took 1st overall in 16:07, this year I'm hoping to defend my title and possibly run under 16. But the lack of speedwork will likely shoot that idea dead though...we'll see.

Hope everyone else had a great week!

Pablo - great week. Think that you're already in excellent shape if you're running 5:3x at a moderate intensity level. Looking really good.

Goal Race: Berlin

Goal Time: sub-2:30

M - 8 easy

T - 5 easy / 2 easy

W - rest

T - rest

F - rest

S - 6 easy

S - rest

Total - 21

Unfortunately the fatigue I experienced at the tail-end of last week got worse. I either had a virus, was over-trained or was glycogen depleted. Decided that the best thing to do was have a few days off and try and ease back into the training this week. Fingers-crossed all will be back on track by the end of the week.

Great week Pablo. I'm all about running by feel as well. I really like progression runs, tempos and fartleks for my team. Nothing get's me more fired up, though, then when I tell the guys to run a progression by feel, and they take it so seriously and make it the hardest workout of the week. Here I am, thinking as a coach this should be a fun workout that you could do 5 days a week, end fast and feeling awesome, and there they are, making it a death march, starting off at 6:00 pace and racing by the end. I'm like, "after 10, some of you 20 years of running, you really don't know how to run by feel?". Its amazing how few people are really able to do this effectively.

Marmite, get healthy!

Race: Chicago 10/10/10

Goal: 2:37'ish

Mon- 8

Tue- 7 uptempo w/6x20 sec fast at the end of the run

Wed- 14 AM: 9 PM: 5

Thur- 9

Fri- 10 w/3x400 on marked road. Ran 74-5 w/about 1:00-2:00 rec (pretty much 100% rec). Plan is to add 1 400/week until I'm up to 8. Ran these a little fast as I want them to be long strides. Figure the right pace for that right now is probably closer to 80 then 75. Goal is just to get a little turnover in without it being a workout. I have a 5 miler the first week of August and want to hit 5:25 pace, so hopefully these will help with that.

Sat- 14. Didn't feel good. Was really hot and humid, and was just depleted, tired and flat. Ran on some trails by my house, and though you can't go fast on them (sometimes as slow as 9:00 pace) they beat you up. Constant turns, steep uphills and downhills and rocky terrain in parts make them fun, but frustrating as far as pace. When I got out on the roads for the last 1.5 miles, was running 6:30-40 pace at the same effort 8:00-9:00 pace was on the trails! Ended up averaging 7:30 pace, but it was a hard 7:30 pace.

Sun- 9 with a friend. Similar to yesterday and on the same trails

Total: 71

Feeling like I am getting fitter. My foot is bothering me, but I am getting through it. Its not getting any better, but its not getting terribly worse, either. It hurts all the time, EXCEPT after mile 2 or so of a run until I finish. Hoping to make it 2 more weeks without a day off, but if I need to pull the trigger this week or next week, I will. Hoping for low to mid 80s this week and low to mid 90s the following. Then a scheduled down week before a 2week up (100+ miles) 1 week down (80'ish w/day off) schedule!

Outstanding, Pablo. Feel better ASAP, Marmite - hope the rest leaves you rarin' to go.

race: NYC

goal: safely under 3 hours, the further under the better

Mo: 4 + 4

Tu: 8

We: 4 + 10 (including low-key 5k race)

Th: 4 + 4

Fr: 4 + 7

Sa: 9 + 5

Su: 9 (with 15x 20" fast @ 2:30 interval) + 8

total: 80

What came before: a stretch at 35-40, then: 14, 11, (mysteriously sore and run down) 41, 26, 43, 51, 63, 80, 80.

I'm enjoying the aspect of doubles where sometimes you just get this unexpected rapid recovery and have the urge and the energy to toss in a couple miles @ about MP into a run, even if the prior one was a race or longer run or you're sleepy or hot or whatever. Doesn't happen to me much on once a day. There's a few such "run to the barn" (or really, here in Brooklyn, to the bodega) bits and strides mixed in here.

The good news about the race is I managed 1st masters and 5th OA. The size (55 finishers, 5 or 6 M4044) and quality of competition, and my finish time, is another matter. Well it's a start for 2010, after missing out on my planned spring races, and one which leaves plenty of room for improvement

Hey guys

Pablo - Excellent Week! Running on feel at this point of Marathon training is best for all. Especially considering the weather... I am racing on the 4th as well. Haven't decided on a 5k or 10k. If it's the 5k, I'd like something sub 16 again. I'll let you know.

Marmite - Get Healthy Soon! You should think about seeing doctor if you haven't already. Get some blood work done.

3TM - Feeling Fit huh? That's great... Time on legs is more important than pace right now. Don't fret the slow ones bud.

Race: Chicago 10/10/10

Goal: 2:36

M - 13

4 on treadmill at a good clip. Ran 9 more on roads. Feeling much much better than yesterday.

T - 10am, 6pm @ 7min pace

felt good in morn, not so great in evening

W - 10am, 8pm

plan in morn was 6 by 90sec hills. turned into 4 hard, 2 easy. legs felt tired.

Th - 6am, 6pm @ 7:30-8min pace

recovery day

F - 8am, 4pm

recovery in morning, quicker 4 at night

S - 15

10 easy, 5 hardish (33:15). felt strong and not drained at all.

Sun - 6am, 8pm @ 7:30-8min pace

recovery day

Total Mileage - 100

Second week in a row @ 100+ miles. Will take a "down" week this week to recover. Thinking of a day off.. maybe Wednesday or Thursday, closer to race day (July 4th). Legs feel really tired (as expected) some days and great other days. We will see how this week goes. Have a good week everyone!

Goal Race: Milwaukee 10/3

Goal Time: 2:29

M: 9

Tu: 10 with 8 strides

W: 11.5

Th: 9

F: 12.5--fitness test. 2 "time trial" type efforts on the track. 1200 followed by 800m jog switch shoes and then 6k. Went 3:25 and 20:03. Felt slow but recovered quickly from both.

Sa: 7 with 8 strides

Su: 13

Goal Race: Chicago (10/10/10 cool!)

Goal Time: 2:30ish

M - AM 30 min easy, PM 60 min easy. 12 miles

T - AM 30 min easy, PM 65 min steady. 13 miles

W - AM 5x1200 on track (3:49, 3:50, 3:50, 3:51, 3:55, felt like crap), long cooldown, PM - 30 min easy. 16 miles

TR - AM 60 min easy, PM 30 min easy. 12 miles

F - 60 min progression run finishing last 20 min pretty hard. 9 miles

Sat - 20 min w/up, 5xmile on gravel loop w/ 1 min rest (5:27, 5:13, 5:13, 5:14, 5:12), 60 min steady after. 16 miles

Sun - Off

78 miles. Down week mileagewise. Hot and humid down here in the dirty south. Up into the 90s for the next 2 weeks.

I'm finally ready to jump back in on this thread.

M: 8,5

T: 3,2

W: 5,8

T: 5

F: 8

S: 15

S: 11

70 miles.

Goal Race: Wineglass 10/3, NYC 11/7

Goal Time: 2:48

So, I came up with a new weather index for me. Miserability Index (MI), which is basically Temperature + Dew Point. It seems when that value gets over 135/140 for me I really can only last 40-45 minutes without seeing a degradation of pace. It's also on days like that where I'm glad I can jump in the pool when I get home from a run. The highest value I've ever seen during a run for me is 155 (79F + 76DP). pablo, would probably laugh at some of the value he would come up with. I'm sure he's regularly in the 160's....

My craptacular week that was very effected by the weather. Way to hot for my 10k XC race last Monday. It looks like it will be hotter for my 5k tonight.

M: 1.72 @ 8:26 AHR 129 (MI: 147.1)

6.30 @ 6:49 AHR 165 (MI: 146.7). 10k XC Race (6:24, 6:28, 7:46, 6:53, 6:55, 6:43, last bit in 6:01/mile).

T: 7.59 @ 7:54 AHR 132 (MI: 127.9)

W: 9.47 @ 7:55 AHR 139 (MI: 143.7)

R: 5.88 @ 7:39 AHR 144 (MI: 141.8)

F am: 3.07 @ 8:21 AHR 130 (MI: 132.1)

F pm: 2.11 @ 7:26

800m race: 2:25.92 HT 2:26.31 FAT (72.14 - 73.78)

1.53 @ 8:27

S: 13.16 @ 7:58 AHR 141 (MI: 145.2)

S: 7.64 @ 7:51 AHR 137 (MI: 147.3)

Tot: 59.0 (7:47/mi)

This past week stunk. Two weeks ago I felt I was well on my way to a 2:48, this week made me feel like I'd be lucky to break 3.... Oh, and I got bit by a tick this week. Hopefully I got it off quick enough and no Lyme's disease, we'll see... This humid weather is killing me. Running the 800m was fun because it was over quickly....

Goal Race: Philadelphia

Goal Time: Sub 2:35

I wanted to hit 100 this week, but didn't end up running on Sunday because I went out of town. I'm surprised at how well my legs are holding up to the sudden jump in mileage, so I plan to stay in this range with little-to-no speed until mid August.

Mo: 10 miles easy

Tu: AM - 7 miles with 4 miles hard

PM - 11.5 miles easy

We: 11.5 miles easy

Th: AM - 8 miles with 6 miles hard

PM - 11.5 miles easy

Fr: 13 miles easy

Sa: 19 miles at 7 minute pace

Su: 0

Total: 91 miles

Race: Chicago

Goal: sub-2:22

M - 13 miles @ 6:20 pace

T - AM: 5 miles easy, PM: 10 miles easy

W - 14 miles @ 6:30 pace

R - 13 miles easy

F - AM: 6 miles easy, PM: 9 miles easy

Sa - 20 miles @ 6:25 pace

Su - 10 miles easy

Total: 100

Had another good week. I was happy to hit 100 mpw this early in the training cycle. I'm still not really doing any quality, but I'm feeling good and fit. Saturday's long run was a nice confidence builder as I felt really strong despite the heat (88 degrees) and really high humidity (and hills). This next week will be a self-imposed down week to let my body rest a bit, and then I'll be back at it.

I like this discussion of "running by feel". This is something that I'm really big on. I think having goal times for certain workouts can be beneficial, but for the most part, everything should be run according to the feedback that your body is giving you. Too many people leave their best races in workouts because they weren't listening to their bodies and running within themselves. I think it's especially important this early in the cycle, as NoleRunner mentioned. Too many people get all fired up in the summer for their fall marathons and start doing hard, structured workouts, forcing themselves to hit times really early, and then end up burning out a month before their goal races. Right now I think any quality work should be pretty relaxed and based on perceived effort. Just my two cents. Keep up the good work, guys.

mrb - I like this discussion as well. The question is how to gage "feel" properly. Do you think it's best to boarder on conservative side for now? Then, push closer to the edge as the goal race approaches?

I think my 15 miler Saturday is a good example of running on feel. I was planning on closer to 6:15 pace but ran 33:15 (6:39pace). This is not a great pace for me right now... However, considering the heat/humidity and my effort I'm fine with it. There were times that I could have pushed the pace and ran closer to goal, but thought better of it. I left the run feeling confident and recovered well.

Another - You're MIndex is hilarious! But sounds like it's very helpful to you. I'd love to see a day right now in FL @ 155(79F + 76DP). It is consistently 80-100F + 70-80DP+++ here.

Goal Race: Maine Marathon (10/3)

Goal Time: 2:25

A bit of a strange week training wise. I took off Tues and Wed do to work, and then decided it was time to get my ass in gear for marathon training since Oct. 3 is only 14 weeks away. So I ramped up the mileage for the second half of the week. My legs feel pretty wiped out from the increase right now, but I'm hoping they adjust in the next week or two. Then maybe I'll start incorporating some workouts back into my program.

M: 7.5 easy (7:15 pace)

Tu: Off

W: Off

Th: 12.5 easy (7 pace)

F: 11.5 easy (7 pace)

Sa: 8.5 easy (7:10 pace)

Su: 10 easy (7 pace, in 90+ degree/humid DC weather)

Total: 50

Impressive mileage from a lot of you on here.

marmite -- I hope you feel better soon, but I think your smart to just take an easy week instead of fighting through.

3TM/mrb/Nole -- Complete agree about the importance of running by feel. This far out from a marathon, I'll may have 3 mile tempos that are slower than my goal marathon pace. But as long as the effort is right, it seems to do the job.

NoleRunner24 wrote:

Another - You're MIndex is hilarious! But sounds like it's very helpful to you. I'd love to see a day right now in FL @ 155(79F + 76DP). It is consistently 80-100F + 70-80DP+++ here.

I have a 5k race tonight @ 7pm. Right now its 95F with a dew point of 71DP. I don't think it will be much of a race....

I just checked, it worse here than in Orlando, FL right now (90F + 73DP). Not used to this stuff this early up hear. Mid-July through mid-August OK, but not in June...

You got me there! Ha.. Where is here? This heat SUCKS!!!!

Good luck in your "race."

Here is Long Island, NY. This Yankee don't do well in this stuff. I miss my 20F runs....

Wow, some very solid weeks here! Good stuff.

As for me, i am able to run despite my twisted ankle, although the swelling has gone from a softball down to a golfball. It hurts when i touch it with my finger but it does not hurt when i run (there is some tightness which disappears after 5-10 minutes). So i am taking the non-conservative approach and running according to my schedule and not taking it easy.....

Goal Race: Berlin 9/26

Goal time: 2:56:xx

M - OFF (ankle)

T - 6 recovery on tm

W - am 4 recovery

W - pm 14 = 3 on tm w/u then 11@7:22 = 7@7:31 +4@7:07 felt good (maybe because i skipped my long run on Sunday)

R - 6.5 easy + 8x100 fast

F - pm 13@7:32

S - OFF (lazy)

Su- am 18 = 5.5@8:00 + 5@6:49 + 5@6:56 + 2.5 easy (MI=140=74/66)

Su - pm 3.5 recovery

Total = 65 / 5d

Not a bad week considering my ankle problem.

My Sunday run did not go well but maybe i am being too hard on myself. It was meant to be a 18 with 10@MP. I found the humidity impossible to handle. I managed to get the first 5MP at 6:49 and then took a 1-2 minute water break (i wasn't carrying water with me so i waited until i found a fountain). The second 5 MP miles were ridiculous and one of those miles i did in 7:25. Quads felt tired earlier than i expected - it could be the humidity or it could because i did my friday run at a moderate pace 32 hours before the Sunday run.

This week is a Pfitz recovery week which isn't much of a down week. I have 68 scheduled - perhaps i should take more off days or scale some runs back?

Another is our resident Pfitz guru - any advice?

A good building week for me, but pretty wiped out at the end of it. Since I'm still relatively inexperienced at higher mileage (in my case that means anything around 70 mpw) I'm still learning a new version of "running by feel". I keep ending up with everything being a 70-80% day instead of mixing 60% days with 85-90% days. It didn't help that several of my runs were in the 150-160 MI range.

Goal: 2:48-50

Race: Columbus

M - 6 (7:30's but very hilly)

T - 4 am (easy) 8.5 pm (w/ 2x3mi. neg split tempo 19:25,19:17)

W - 6.5 (7:30's flat)

Th - 9 (7:20's)

F - 3 am (easy) 7.5 (6:50's rolling)

S - 9 (7:26's 1 mi. barefoot on infield)

S - 14 (7:30 big climb, couple of breaks for water in second half of run)

67.5 for the week. I wanted 70, but after jumping from 12.5 to 49 to 67.5 I'm still satisfied with the progression. Trying for 80 this week, but I'll have to go easier on more days.

goal race 10/3

6/11

11

6/11

6/11

11

18

9

100 feeling good

week 3/4 of 100 mile mile efforts, then a down week, then back up to 100+