Breaking 10:00 in the 3200m

i think the key to breaking 10 in 3200 in high school is (if you've done adequate training) your race strategy. lots of hschoolers go out especially hard and die, but if you race smart, like just try and run 74/75 each 400, it makes it a lot easier.

this is assuming you have the training.

You have to race smart and not go out in the first. Also run even splits. I broke 10 min in highschool doing that.

run farther, run faster, run smarter. That should do it.

shut the hell up ukathleticscoach. this kid is in high school. only elites truly can be said to train like elites, and they all train different anyway.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

ladc wrote:

No workouts right now. Just do 70mpw base and you should be set for sub-10 3200 by the first race in say March.

Is that the training that elite athletes do? Maybe you know better than them?

here goes wrote:

777...wrote:

Most every (male) high school runner is capable of breaking 10 if he has a few years to train for it.

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That's a dubious claim. I doubt if most hs runners can break 10 for 3200? In hs I was 5:01 and 2:05 for 800. Didn't run the 2 mi in hs. It was years after hs before I broke 10 for 2. I was running low 16 for 5k at the time, on 50 mpw.

A sub 10 3200 is not superstar stuff, but I think it's beyond most hs runners.

A few observations:

*5:01 is much, much worse than a 2:05 800, and low-16 5k is also much better than 5:01. Either your courses for cross weren't accurate and you were a real middle distance talent, or you somehow never put it together for the mile.

*50mpw isn't very much running. If you are an "untalented" guy, you'll probably have to spend a few continuous chunks (4-8 weeks) of your life at or above 65 mpw (and really, I wouldn't say "back off" until you approached 90 if you were handling it and structuring it right)

*I said most high school runners are capable of breaking ten. A lot of people get mentally hung up on it, or simply don't believe they can do it. When you're a freshman running over 12 minutes for the 3200, it seems a long way off--and it is, if you are focusing on the end product instead of what you need to be doing right now. Furthermore, few high schoolers train long or hard enough (I cringe to use the word "hard"--perhaps "with enough focus and intent" would be better) to achieve it. Physiologically, I think if you can break 20 minutes for 5k as a freshman, you can break 10 for 3200. In fact, you could break 9:50. I've seen it done many times. But, you've got to be on top of your game by sophomore year or so--and that means consistent training all year round. Not a ton, but a healthy 5 or 6 runs per week for a sophomore, eventually (or perhaps "ideally") building up to 10ish runs a week by senior year. Obviously, the needs and idiosyncrasies of the individual will take over at some point. The one exception (to consistent year-round training) I've seen that works out is nordic skiing--another factor that may be skewing my perspective is that, up north here, we don't have indoor track, so your options are 1) ski and stay in great aerobic shape, 2) train (outside in the snow-good luck overtraining in that weather!) all 12 or 16 weeks that separate cross country and track or 3) do nothing all winter and get whupped when track rolls around. Young runners also aren't getting burned out on three (running) peaks per year.

Most good programs at large high schools seem to be able to churn out anywhere from 3 to 6 sub-10 guys per graduating class. Seems like a big team would have between 10 and 20 freshmen, so even though 3/10 or 4/20 seems like a small number, how many of those guys actually stick with it and train all four years?

Also, mileage is a very crude tool for discussing training. It's all how you structure it. 75 miles a week at 6:30 pace, in singles is much too hard for most high schoolers. But if you did that at 7:15 or 7:30 pace, and split it up over 9 or 10 or 11 runs, it'd be much more manageable--for a senior. I think physical and mental maturity has a lot to do with how much training you can handle, and I also think that you'll generally find the right amount for where you're at, as long as nobody's pressuring you to do this or that--but of course, here I am saying "run this many miles, etc etc"!

So, here are the complimentary grains of salt ..:::..

Update:

These past two weeks I ran 32 and 34 miles. This week I will aim for 40, nothing real high. I was doing 45 all XC and will get back thre in a few weeks.

Things I'm doing diffrent in the winter than XC. I been lifting, doing plyos and drills alot more. I been running on the Treadmil more doing alot of work around 6:20-6:40 pace. I do 2 speed workout type runs a week.

Hear is the outline of my past week:

Sun-Treadmil run-4min 800m warm up,3 miles in 16:11(5:39,5:26,5:06

Mon-Treadmil- 7min 1mile warm up, 4 miles at 6:20 pace,30min of lifting,plyos, and drills

Tue-Treadmil-6 miles avg.6:56

Wed-Treadmil-4min 800m warm up, 5miles at 6:22 pace,3/4 of a at mile 6min pace and 1/4 mile at 4:50 pace

Thur-Off

Fri-Treadmil-7miles,7:44,6:44,6:44,6:31,6:31,5:43(3/4 mile at 6:00min pace and 1/4 mile at 4:50 pace.

Sat-6miles on the roads easy

Sun-A.M.Treadmil- half mile warm up in 4min, 1hr worth of lifting,plyos and drills,10x160m(on treadmil) at 4:50 pace

P.M.-5 miles on the roads avg.6:31

Two weeks ago I did a 4:57 mile Time Trial on the tredmil after 3 miles at 6:55 pace, that same week I did a 1mile warm up,8x200m at 34 sec(in 25F weather,very windy) and 4 miles on the roads mostly uphill

My first race for indoors will be Jan.8th and I will be running the 1 Mile. I want to run anywere between 4:45-4:52 I realy want to see what my shape is right now.

This week My friend and I will be doing a 600m Time Trial, we will do the first 400m in 62sec, and then go full out for the last 200m

Oh yeah.... I forgot to mention I'm falling the 5-Paced System but adjusting it so it will work well for me.

Hi, I was a 4:34 (mile), 9:42 (2 mile) back in the '70's. I agree with a lot of what's been said above, but I don't think that 65 mpw is necessary to run 10 minute. For a high-schooler, 50-55 mpw should suffice so long as you get one long run in per week (to be honest, I'm not sure I even ran 50 mpw). But I think 400's and 600's are the key to running 3200m well. You should be able to do 10x400m in under 70s with 200m slow jog rest if you expect to break 10 minutes (as I recall I was running quarters in about 67-68s in those workouts). I don't think the 200m are the most efficient unless you are also planning to run 800m races, they will help with your kick, though. (I think 300m was the shortest reps I ever did.) The strength workouts are also a great idea; I also highly recommend working the hills on your runs. In all your runs, I recommend varying your pace. It'll keep you from getting pace-locked and help you to be able to change pace if somebody makes a move during a race. You might also consider asking your coach to double you up running 1600m and 3200m during the indoor dual meets.

In running treadmill, make sure that you have the recommended tilts, but be warned that running treadmill is just not the same as running outside.

Good Luck

Dare i use the word overtraining?

If you are trying to break 10 minutes 5 miles at 6.22 is not exactly a good preperation in training with intervaldays.

Why not slumber around at 7.30 per mile every day for whatever time you want to spend on it and above that run 2 miles at 5.20 per mile three days a week. Build it to say 40 miles a week and then build the tempo's to three milers in 16 minutes without speeding or slowing (treadmill?).

This should be well doable and at least your working to something. I can't see what your working at with a schedule like that. It is so messed up.

I know it is pretty hard work but my goal is to build my LT leval higher for the spring and XC next year. I feel training at 6:20 pace for 5 miles at the time is working well so far.

I know the treadmil is easier than outside but when I ran on the roads I feel very smooth and fast. The hills are a little bit of a pain but I'm training for track not XC. In the spring I will introduce hill sprints(60-75m sprints up a steep hill) like I did in XC.

I agree with ikke. Careful that you don't overload on intermediate speed workouts. It'll hamper your performance on the hard days. Mark Nenow was quoted as saying that the problem he sees with many distance runners is that they don't run their hard workouts hard enough or their easy workouts easy enough.

There is a misconception that hill running is for road and cross-country racing. This isn't true. Hill running is strength training and is very much like interval running in that it forces you to lift your knees higher and pump your arms harder. Benefit is that it's easier on the legs that intervals. Here's a couple of short reads on the topic.

http://www.brianmac.co.uk/hilltrain.htm

http://www.running.net/read_feature/why-you-should-lift-weights-why-you-shouldnt-lift-weights

What you'll see is that your 60-75m steep hill sprints are probably too short, too steep, and too fast for maximum benefit as a distance runner. Better to find a 1/4 mile long hill at about a 6-7% grade and do it at a 5k effort (effort, not pace), with about 6-8 reps. If you incorporate this drill once a week into your workouts until maybe 2 weeks before the start of the outdoor season, you'll have much stronger finishes in all your races.

i'm trying to break 16:40 on a fast XC course (Oakville Indian Mounds Park in AL), and then do 4:40 / 10:10 in indoor. is that reasonable? i see that people break 10 off of 4:42ish, but i couldn't imagine even doing 10:15 off of 4:42. i do max 36mpw (school takes a lot of time) and i ask whether those goals are reasonable.

thanks

that is my daily milage