If Bill McChesney holds the 5k, and 10k records at Oregon, Why is Pre the dominant idol?

Was there wrote:

What? Charismatic isn't a word that one would use to describe McChesney.

To answer the OPs question - McChesney had a very mediocre college career. Pre won almost every race he ran.

From your name you give the impression that you were there. My question is were you there as a teammate, fan in the stands, or competitor? If you were a teammate or competitor, I would be curious as to your credentials. If Billy's career was mediocre, I would like to hear where yours was. Did you ever beat a former WR holder? Billy did during a drizzly day 5000m in a dual meet against WSU, as he kicked down Samson Kimombwa. Did you ever qualify for an Olympic team? Billy did albeit a team that didn't attend the games. Did/do you hold a school record? billy does for a school that has a legendary status in the event that Billy's record is held.

pre841 wrote:

From your name you give the impression that you were there. My question is were you there as a teammate, fan in the stands, or competitor? If you were a teammate or competitor, I would be curious as to your credentials. If Billy's career was mediocre, I would like to hear where yours was. Did you ever beat a former WR holder? Billy did during a drizzly day 5000m in a dual meet against WSU, as he kicked down Samson Kimombwa. Did you ever qualify for an Olympic team? Billy did albeit a team that didn't attend the games. Did/do you hold a school record? billy does for a school that has a legendary status in the event that Billy's record is held.

Billy ran fast when it didn't matter. He was never a threat to anyone in NCAA competition. His best finishes in NCAA competition were 3rd and 5th places.

Hard to compare era's folks.

Billy was my roommate and best friend for 2 years at Oregon.

Billy was and is a legend to a lot of us from that era. Both a personal and athletic legend, to be sure.

There are few people who know more about Billy from back then than myself, and there are many, many legendary stories. There is a lot I won't share on a site like this, and some of you will understand why. On the old McChesney thread there are some great and funny stories shared, but as his former roommate and best friend, I don't feel this site is maintained as a respectful place to share some of the legendary stories...

Maybe a book someday (Kenny are you listening ;-)

Perhaps Pat Tyson feels this way about some of his Prefontaine stories. Maybe some things should remain in the inner circles.

I will share a few things though. I have often thought that Billy didn't get enough credit for what he did accomplish. Even Alberto gave him short shrift on the wall of fame inside Alberto's restaurant, lol. (They were good friends though, and unlike the bashing that goes on on this site, for those who really want to know the truth...Alberto was and is a great guy, and was Billy.)

Billy got lost a tad in the crowd those days. We had an incredibly, incredibly deep team...and doubly deep squad...attempting to make the team. (We once calculated, that if we took an entire year, with the guys we had, and focused solely on the mile alone...that we could probably get 20 guys under 4mins in the mile.) There was that much talent there at the time, and not enough coaches or races to properly develop everyone.

For Billy, being a year or two behind, meant that he was often overshadowed by Centrowitz, Rudy, Alberto and Don Clary. Once they were out of school, he took down their Oregon records handily.

Also, the conditions/era had totally changed, with faster times, due to several factors discussed on other threads... We effectively had 4 Prefontaine level talents on the Oregon team at one time. Centrowitz, Rudy and Salazar all ran faster than Pre's pb's in the 5 or 10k (if memory serves).

Pre didn't have 3-4 guys who could run with him on any given day. He had Paul Geis, for one day, lol.

When Billy came in, Centrowitz was the leader of the team at that point, the elder. On any given day Centrowitz could be challenged by Rudy, Alberto, Don Clary, or Billy, and these guys could all challenge each other.

--Centrowitz should be a greater legend, that guy was so tough competitively, when he was in the mix to win, which was a lot, he rarely got beat. I see that same calm cold steel toughness in his son. Great stuff.

For Billy, his challenge, was more a case of the chronic re-occurring achilles problems from a high school basket ball accident. He achieved what he achieved, on a chronically sore achilles tendon that was sore to the touch pretty much...his...entire collegiate and post collegiate career. Imagine running at an elite level for half a decade+ with...a chronically sore achilles. Guts. As a consequence, he practically invented pool work for Oregon runners. And he definitely invented stationary bike work in the sauna!

His career became a case of what ifs... What if he hadn't had the achilles issue, if we hadn't boycotted the Olympics, if they knew then, what they know now about training etc...

Billy, as many know, came from an proto "fitness as lifestyle" family. Like Rupp and Webb he was doing fitness sports at an early age. A legendary family (again, read the old thread). Great parents. A real center to the community. That family broke their budget feeding every athlete in town! The thing you hear again and again about the McChesney family is "what a great family." And it was and is true. Amazingly genuine and giving people.

There is indeed a book full of stories to be written on Billy's legendary fitness and running deeds and accomplishments.

He was, for sure, a different guy than Pre, but they had some similarities. Billy had a bounce in both his step and his personality. Pre was sincere, and intense, and could be funny. Billy was upbeat, sincere, and voraciously curious. He was also passionately self monitoring -- he would often stop himself while talking and chastise himself for using lazy or weak language, and then start over using more precise words. "What am I doing, I know how to use words better than that, that was lazy, okay..." Classic.

He was also a gym rat, and a workout warrior, in the good ways. He was probably the most generous Oregon athlete of all time, always willing to encourage, advise and coach other athletes. He taught me how to lift free weights. (Mac Wilkins taught him). He also taught me how to run distance, I thought I knew, until he kicked my ass on a few 15 milers, and then explained to me how he did it, psychologically --and physiologically. ...Turning fast paced long runs into a discourse on meditation and efficiency.

Like Pre he was totally fearless as a runner. If he had it in his body to give that day in a race, it was all laid out. All the Oregon champions had that ability in common.

But he had a real struggle with the achilles effecting his continuity training-wise. There was talk of achilles surgery, even before he arrived at Oregon. In light of that, what he did accomplish time wise...is damned impressive. Think about how archaic orthopedic surgery techniques were back in 1977. Scary.

Ultimately, while Billy ran faster than Pre, Billy's legacy is probably on balance equal to his accomplishments. He probably could and should get more credit. He has a memorial tree by the Bowerman curve named after him, and a race dedicated to him.

He's also honored in the lives of all of us who were fortunate enough to know him.

Within Oregon circles Bill McChesney is very much a legend.

Was there wrote:

Billy ran fast when it didn't matter. He was never a threat to anyone in NCAA competition. His best finishes in NCAA competition were 3rd and 5th places.

Okay, then please tell us about your credentials that enable you to categorize Billy as mediocre. Unless you're Alberto or Rudy, then your point of comparison is a bit out of balance. What were your best Jr. Nationals, NCAA, OT, or WC finishes? How about HS state meets?

Was there wrote:

pre841 wrote:

Billy was a great runner, a great human being, and quite charismatic. Unlike Pre, Billy's death came well after his running career had come to a close. The loss of any human life especially the likes of Billy and his older brother Tom is tragic on many levels

What? Charismatic isn't a word that one would use to describe McChesney.

To answer the OPs question - McChesney had a very mediocre college career. Pre won almost every race he ran.

Okay, suckwad, I'll bite.

You were there?

I was his roommate for two years, and one of his closest friends.

First, his accomplishments, were modest. Mostly due to chronic achilles problems, screwing up his timing for big meets.

He was decidedly NOT a mediocre runner (that stupidity almost eliminates you comments from any serious consideration, but I'll assume you just mis-spoke).

His accomplishments were modest, his times were not mediocre.

If they were it would not have taken nearly 30 years of Oregon running to break one of his two school records.

As for his charisma... How were you "there." In what capacity?

If you did not think Billy had charisma, it is more likely you were/are the dud, and not Billy. He did not have Pre's charisma, he had Billy's charisma.

But he definitely had charisma. Come to think of it, all the McChesney's had it. A ready smile on there faces, a twinkle in their eye, and an open, positive and generous spirit to all they met. There is a reason so many people on the old McChesney thread rave about that family. They had it.

Was there wrote:

Ryan Foreman wrote:

When he performed on the track I would call him charismatic. I can't speak to how he was off the track.

And to call him "mediocre" in his college career is just stupid and doesn't deserve a response.

His college career was mediocre. Best finish at nationals was a 3rd and a 5th.

Uh, I think 3rd and 5th in the nation is a tad better than mediocre. Are all the teams that make it to the final four in basketball but lose "mediocre" to you? Besides that, I tend to think of a college career in track as all races he ran when he was in college whether it was in a duck uniform or not. I believe he ran his fastest times while still in school in Europe.

Billy s Roommate wrote:

First, his accomplishments, were modest. Mostly due to chronic achilles problems, screwing up his timing for big meets.

His accomplishments were modest, his times were not mediocre.

That's what I said.

Billy's roommate,

Thanks for that post. I'm still unclear on something. Was it the achilles heal problem that made him retire from the sport early? Or was it other things?

Whats amazing is how he accomplished his PBs at a relatively young age. The 84 olympics would have been right in his prime but he retired before then. He so easily could have been a household name in America and around the world but for a tiny bit of fate.

I remember reading a Dellinger quote about Pre saying that his greatest natural talent was staying healthy so he could continuously reach a level and build off that to the next level. I was never a high level athlete but having gone through some injuries in my time I can appreciate the toll it takes to have to rest and nurse an injury. Then work back to get to the level you were at before attaining a new level.

That McChesney had to fight through those nagging injuries and still accomplish what he did is amazing to me. Seems like if he could have stayed constantly healthy he would have been scary good and outright greater than Pre or any other Duck runner. His running form was mesmerizing to watch as it seemed so graceful and efficient.

POST OF THE YEAR! Thank you...if you have more to add, awesome.

Was there wrote:

Billy s Roommate wrote:

First, his accomplishments, were modest. Mostly due to chronic achilles problems, screwing up his timing for big meets.

His accomplishments were modest, his times were not mediocre.

That's what I said.

No -- that is not what you said.

I said his accomplishments were "modest," you said "mediocre." They are different words, with different meanings. Modest achievements, are different than mediocre achievements. Make sense?

And seriously dude, if you have been drinking or something tonight, just man up and take a different tack, or push away from the computer.

You might also apologize.

There are at least two of Bill's teammates here right now, and neither of them think you sound anything like anyone who was "there."

Hey Ryan,

Honestly, I don't remember exactly, I seem to recall that there may have been some other injury problem. Check the old thread, Steve or someone may have reported it. I seem to remember that there was something else, but I don't want to mis-report based on a fuzzy memory.

Based on that you wrote: " Seems like if he could have stayed constantly healthy he would have been scary good and outright greater than Pre or any other Duck runner..."

I'll tell you what a lot of Pre's friends and people believed who were around at the time - that Bill was MORE talented than Pre -- that is for sure. At 16 or 17 (this story has been told a few times, Billy told it to me) Billy had a lower resting pulse rate than Pre did at his peak. And it pissed off the ever competitive Pre. Pre was giving a talk on fitness to Bill's class, and they all tested their resting pulse rate, Billy's came out lower than Pre's, Pre didn't believe it and demanded a re-do, but not before Pre cracked everybody up by poking and tickling Billy trying to raise his pulse rate. Billy was a cool and confident character, and on the retest, Pre's pulse was still higher. Both of these dudes in real life were really cool, fun, generous, nice guys.

You are right, Billy was an incredibly graceful runner. Rupp has similar form. Sometimes I laugh at the idea that Rupp is Billy reincarnated, even though I don't believe in that stuff, but they both have/had similar form.

Ryan, thanks for asking and being a positive presence here.

Jzs wrote:

POST OF THE YEAR! Thank you...if you have more to add, awesome.

Hey, thanks Jzs, and you're welcome.

You know if we had a closed private thread of only respectful people interested in learning more, and celebrating history - I'd certainly share more. If that thread was at another site, lol.

--For obvious reasons, I don't think this site deserves the best and most inside stories.

I wish Kenny Moore would write another book on just the history of Oregon track and interview all the living athletes and behind the scenes players of each era and preserve both the athletic and social history.

The late 70's era was amazing. The collection of talented characters that Pre helped draw to Oregon, was diverse, and there are many amusing to flat out hilarious stories to tell...

Oh, and then there were was the track and field.

;-)

doesnt rupp hold the 5k and 10k records?

Billy s Roommate wrote:

And seriously dude, if you have been drinking or something tonight,

I'm not Pre.

Was there wrote:

Billy s Roommate wrote:

And seriously dude, if you have been drinking or something tonight,

I'm not Pre.

No, you are just a pretty sick individual.

huh? wrote:

doesnt rupp hold the 5k and 10k records?

Rupp got the 10k, but the various websites haven't all been updated.

In the 5k, Rupp did not go under 13:14 as a Duck, so Billy still holds that record.

Do the 70's runners still keep in touch with each other? I sure would like to get ahold of some of the collectible stuff they may have. Can some of you share some of the things you may have from those days?

Billy s Roommate wrote:

Was there wrote:

I'm not Pre.

No, you are just a pretty sick individual.

You're crazy. I point out McChesney had a very average college career, especially by Oregon standards, and nowhere near the same level as Prefontianes career, so you resort to name-calling. You're not helping your case one bit.

owen the truck driver wrote:

Do the 70's runners still keep in touch with each other? I sure would like to get ahold of some of the collectible stuff they may have. Can some of you share some of the things you may have from those days?

Alot of the guys stay in touch. Like anything a lot of time has passed and contact may be sporadic. Obviously the guys in Portland are more connected.

As to collectibles. Depends what you would be looking for. I've got pretty much everything uniform wise, workout sweats, meet day warms ups, workout t-shirt, rain suit. My running shorts are not in top shape. Everything else is pretty much as perfect as anything 30 years old could be that has been stored in a trunk for 30 years. Most of it is amazingly brand new looking, except the work out shirt. I looked at it a few months ago for the first time in 15 years. I've got Pre's autograph, lots of key books and magazines from the era, some autographed. Of everyone on the team, I was the collector. Some unworn t-shirts from events. Probably a few worn t-shirts that kids today would think were retro cool, and the Japanese would probably pay a grand a piece for, lol.

I think most of the guys wouldn't want to let go of much, giving it to their kids or family members. I think if anyone did part with something they would only do so if the other party had an incredibly high quality reason for wanting it.

And if it was for money...we're all old enough that money would not be a motive; which means the money would have to be nuts to get our attention -- but only after the reason someone wanted it was vetted as honorable, and in a best case scenario that would be for a hall of fame, or museum purpose. So, why the person wanted it, what they were going to do with it, would have to be honoring and respectful, and again, if for money, I would imagine, it would have to be pretty insane in order to equal the sentimental value to let go of it to a stranger.

Again, I think most guys would give it to their family members, or the Oregon hall of fame or something.

I've thought about giving some of mine to some of the current team members. I seem to recall reading a blip somewhere a few years ago that they all grew mustaches to honor our era, lol, and talked about how cool they thought our old school uniforms with the "short-shorts" were, lol. They called us "the golden age" of Oregon Track. I call today's kids as "the new golden age" of Oregon Track.

There is just so much respect right now between the two era's it is palpable. Alberto's stewardship of Galen's career. Centrowitz's son being on the team. This is all all major, major stuff to us. Luke stepping up as a Freshman. Andrew's connection to an old Eugene resident and Nike guy. Andrew watching the Pre moving and becoming inspired to be a runner and a Duck, and then his trajectory. Most of us feel like spiritual father's to all these kids. There is such a sense of connection between the two era's right now, it is off the charts. So if I was giving stuff away...well you get the picture.

The late 70's Duck era was a very special era. It was probably tougher to make the team then that it has ever been before or since. Maybe it is approaching the same now. Pre attracted a flood of talent to the school. Earning that uniform, and wearing it was as big a deal as it ever has been at Oregon, during that time. Hard to imagine any of the guys giving theirs up to other than actual family, or "family" family, as in today's team.

But, it is possible, you never know.

And, you may or may not know this, but interestingly enough...back in that day, the wonderful Mrs. McChesney made those uniforms!