Arthur Lydiard and his statements

shit just got real wrote:

That settles it.

Lydiard wrote, “(Viren) still sends me a card every Christmas and gives me the credit for his great successes, but I never trained him. I coached his coach to do that.’

The truth just got owned.

who you gonna believe,,,the thruth, or thum thilly old article thatth 4 yearth old now

the truth: wrote:

...You feel disgusted with Vasala and hate Finns? Maybe you should try some medication or therapy, that kind of feelings are not healthy.

the truth. wrote:

All you american priks can go to hell, while you're at it.

You don't know finnish, so suck it.

HA HA HA HA HA!!! Now that's a pot calling a kettle black! This really shows you have NO idea what you're talking about.

the truth: wrote:

My point again to you HRE: ARTHUR LYDIARD DID NOT COACH LASSE VIREN. Got it?

the truth: wrote:

HHH wrote:

Viren used steroids to help him win, just go and read the book! This is THE TRUTH

So what if Viren used steroids etc.? I am hear to tell the truth about Arthur Lydiard´s lies, not anything else. Got it?

HRE asked: "So what's your point?"

Truth answered: "My point is that Lydiard didn't coach Viren"

All the rest of us: "We knew that already."

All the rest of us: "So what's your opint?"

Truth came back: "My point is that Lydiard lied."

So here's a proof; Truth lied. With the same standard he had demonstrated, he should be brought into public and executed BECAUSE HE LIED.

the truth: wrote:

...It doesn´t matter how much Vasala´s training was influenced by Lydiard, what matters is that Lydiard wasn´t his coach so Lydiard lied. This is a fact...

Here you go; The ALMIGHTY had spoken. It doesn't matter whether Lydiard influenced all those runners in Finland, Australia, Japan, USA, South Africa and the rest of the world; it doesn't matter whether he influenced Bowerman to start jogging and SAVED millions of people's lives. It dosen't matter whether Viren used steroid or Marion Jones used HGT. Lydiard LIED (which, once again, he failed to provide ANY proof of his own other than "I read the book 30 years ago, this jerk said he saw it on TV in the language that I don't understand...")--which, I know that Lydiard EXEGGERATED often and I'm sure he lied here and there in his 87 years of life. But all it takes is ONE LIE which this ALMIGHTY decided is so abnoxiously inmorale that it has to be brought into the light and Lydiard be crucified. We need to STONE this liar! Oh, by the say, our neighbore, Sussie, said that she was sick a week ago and couldn't make it to the bookclub meeting and the truth is that she just didn't want to go and someone saw her jogging that evening. Should I start the thread and execute her here as well?

the truth: wrote:

You keep digging yourself in a deeper hole, moron.

Doing exactly the same thing; if Truth does it, it's sacred mission. If someone else does it, it's moronic and stupid. You really don't see it, do you? Indeed, you don't need English lesson; YOU need therapy.

Dear Letsrun moderators,

Please lock the thread in which I am posting this response.

It has become this -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM

- and is no longer serving a purpose.

Sincerely,

Everyone else.

...better yet, just deleat the whole thing. You know, I only see this at letsrun message board. Whenever the word "Lydiard" pops out, there's always at least one clown (maybe there IS only one with all those different server names...) comes along and trash it for no particular reason; using no logic whatsoever but his/her own. Lydiard was awarded with the White Cross--equivalent of the knighthood in Finland--and he was THE only non-Finnish to have ever received this honor. Public acknowledge the contribution this man made to the Finnish athletics. And all it takes in one clown to trash it. Sad...

Yes, your NEW point. As I recall, the original point was that Lydiard was not the coach of Viren and Vasala. This was a curious, irrelevant point everyone was willing to accept, mostly wondering why it needed to be made at all, as most anyone who cared already knew the, as yet undisputed, truth from the 1978 book of Lydiard. "Hey dumbass" said it best by saying "you are 30 years too late". If only I possessed the ability to be so wise with so few words.

Your NEW (and as yet unsubstantiated) point is that Lydiard lied. Yet from the "evidence" you give, I still see four possibilities:

1) Lydiard actually lied

2) Vasala lied

3) "the truth" lied

4) Get this: whatever Lydiard said was not a lie

At this point, we simply don't have enough information yet to eliminate any of these possibilities (two of which are introduced by hearsay -- do you see now why hearsay is a poor substitute for the truth? You need a more direct source to eliminate some of the doubt).

1) To conclude Lydiard lied, we must know what he said. We can not substitute "truth's" statments or Vasala's statements for Lydiard's statements. I don't know how the truth works in Finland, but where I come from this is a mandatory prerequisite. You can not say someone lied if you do not know what he actually said, and the context in which it was said.

2) In the real world, I might consider that Vasala may have simply misunderstood the subtlety of words in a foreign language, or otherwise have reason to be jealous or bad-mouth Lydiard, for stealing some of the Finnish national glory. But for simplicity, I will adopt your standard, and simply say that if it is not the truth, then he is lying. After all, it is really just that simple.

3) "truth's" standard also applies to "truth", even more so. Whatever is not the truth must be a lie.

4) Whether the training is the same or not is irrelevant. (But on a side note, to discard training as different than Lydiard, we would need several years of actual training to see the lack of things like base training, hill training, periodicity, track training, consolidation, etc.). We do not need to establish that Viren's training was Lydiard-like, or that Viren had other coaches. As I have shown, by impartial dictionary definitions, it is simply sufficient to show that Lydiard's lectures to the Finns were instructive, and that the instructive lectures served to guide Viren's and Vasala's training. This is sufficient to support a statement that "Lydiard coached Viren to Olympic success".

shit just got real wrote:

Lydiard wrote, “(Viren) still sends me a card every Christmas and gives me the credit for his great successes, but I never trained him. I coached his coach to do that.’

The truth just got owned.

You just proved that Lydiard was a liar.

Because Viren's coach did NOT use Lydiard's method.

You're the one who got owned.

white lie wrote:

the truth. wrote:

All you american priks can go to hell, while you're at it.

You don't know finnish, so suck it.

HA HA HA HA HA!!! Now that's a pot calling a kettle black! This really shows you have NO idea what you're talking about.

Do you understand that "the truth." who wrote that above, it wasn´t me, "the truth:" It was a fake me. You can see that I did respond to that wroter.

So HA HA HA to you, moron.

Thank you.

For all the rest of posters, leave your emotions away and accept the truth so that you can move on with your lives.

It´s obvious that you aren´t capable to even consider that possibility that I´m not a troll and I´m telling THE TRUTH.

Think that honestly.

Sorry, I meant "writer" in my reply to that another poster.

I learn all the time when I respond to you other posters, so thank you!

the truth: wrote:

Thank you.

For all the rest of posters, leave your emotions away and accept the truth so that you can move on with your lives.

It´s obvious that you aren´t capable to even consider that possibility that I´m not a troll and I´m telling THE TRUTH.

Think that honestly.

But I am telling THE TRUTH too: Viren was a druggie and cheated to win. I saw it in a TV interview 30 years ago so it must be true! I speak THE TRUTH. If you want some evidence just go read a book but you must accept that I write THE TRUTH. The more I say I am writing THE TRUTH, the TRUER it becomes...

rekrunner wrote:

We do not need to establish that Viren's training was Lydiard-like, or that Viren had other coaches. As I have shown, by impartial dictionary definitions, it is simply sufficient to show that Lydiard's lectures to the Finns were instructive, and that the instructive lectures served to guide Viren's and Vasala's training. This is sufficient to support a statement that "Lydiard coached Viren to Olympic success".

Yes we don't. In case of doubt or undefined it's Lydiard training by the impartial dictionary definition.

the truth: wrote:

Do you understand that "the truth." who wrote that above, it wasn´t me, "the truth:" It was a fake me. You can see that I did respond to that wroter.

So HA HA HA to you, moron.

Is this the best YOU can do? So you conveniently ignored other points that I and others had made?

Besides, for all we know, you could be 5 different posters under different names--a typical Lydiard-hater strategy...

A friend of mine said she sat next to you at a cyber cafe using 3 different names--this is the TRUTH!!! You'd better take my word for it; I have the evidence and you don't but I'm not sharing it with any of you. So it's got to be THE TRUTH!!! (or should I say, "THE THRUTH"!)

you only think so wrote:

You just proved that Lydiard was a liar.

Because Viren's coach did NOT use Lydiard's method.

So are we starting a new argument here again? First, it was "No, Lydiard didn't coach Viren!" which turned into "Lydiard lied" and now "Viren didn't do Lydiard"??? So in your own words of definition, what is "Lydiard"?

Are you saying this because you saw in a Finnish publication which none of us can read or even remember that Haikolla said he "didn't do Lydiard"? Or is it because Viren didn't run 100 miles a week in a manner of; Monday 10 miles; Tuesday 15 miles; Wednesday 12 miles..."?

Latter, once again, a typical Lydiard-hater strategy. Do you even know what Viren did? Go pick up a copy of Running Times--there's a great article, written by Lorraine Moller, about Lydiard training. So why do you think Viren sent Christmas card to Lydiard? Because he was a nice guy?

the truth: wrote:

Thank you.

For all the rest of posters, leave your emotions away and accept the truth so that you can move on with your lives.

It´s obvious that you aren´t capable to even consider that possibility that I´m not a troll and I´m telling THE TRUTH.

Think that honestly.

If I rule out trolling all I'm left with is idiot.

This is for the moderators. I think you have a problem on your hands in regards to threads about Arthur Lydiard. He is one of the most influential coach/theorists ever to come along. It's hard to imagine having a serious running message board where it's nearly impossible to have a discussion about Lydiard and his system. But that's what we have here because the clown who started this thread, or perhaps the occasional person like him, trash any thread about Lydiard with this sort of unrelenting nonsense.

I know you guys don't want to make people register and I can understand that having some abrasive posters here and there increase traffic. But if you really want to have a site where serious runners can exchange information you're really undermining that when you allow this bozo free reign. In my opinion.

Don't you love how letsrun carries the story about Lolo Jones posing nude on its front page, yet all threads about it get deleted. Man, the moderators on this site truly are the dumbest sons of bitches ever.

This insanity explains the dearth of Lydiard threads. Anyone want to fill me in on what Lydiard advocated? High mileage at a good aerobic pace (six minutes/mile for Snell) with strides, and periodization?