Does this make sense?

Anyone who wants to can also run at USATF XC nationals. I think most 23 minute 5K guys would exercise some discretion and choose to not hop on the line next to Ritz and throw down a 60 min+ 12K at the national championship race.

I'm generally all for inclusion of all ability/interest levels, but there is a time and place for inclusion and there is a time and place for competition. You have plenty of meets throughout the year that are all about inclusion. The championship is not one of them.

Bear of Bad News wrote:

Anyone who wants to can also run at USATF XC nationals. I think most 23 minute 5K guys would exercise some discretion and choose to not hop on the line next to Ritz and throw down a 60 min+ 12K at the national championship race.

I'm generally all for inclusion of all ability/interest levels, but there is a time and place for inclusion and there is a time and place for competition. You have plenty of meets throughout the year that are all about inclusion. The championship is not one of them.

Ok, well Ritz won't be in the LHSAA 2A state championship so I'm not sure that analogy really works for what I'm talking about. I think y'all don't understand that this isn't the norm in Louisiana for teams to just not go to state because they they're not fast enough. I don't think any teams in Louisiana don't go to the state meet for this reason.

Qualifying for a big meet is a good motivator for a lot of runners. The coach's decision makes perfect sense. I was on a team with a front runner around 16:10 and all 7 varsity runners under 17:50 (at the qualifying meet) and we didn't qualify for state, so you aren't going to get much sympathy from me.

duck in the chicken wrote:

Qualifying for a big meet is a good motivator for a lot of runners. The coach's decision makes perfect sense. I was on a team with a front runner around 16:10 and all 7 varsity runners under 17:50 (at the qualifying meet) and we didn't qualify for state, so you aren't going to get much sympathy from me.

I'm not asking for sympathy. I'm not even on this team. But it's a completely different situation for your team to not qualify at a qualifying meet versus a coach making the decision to not take the team to state when they are automatically qualified to go.

3200guy wrote:

I'm not asking for sympathy. I'm not even on this team. But it's a completely different situation for your team to not qualify at a qualifying meet versus a coach making the decision to not take the team to state when they are automatically qualified to go.

Why? The only difference is who decides the runners don't get to go. The coach at my HS has been increasing the standards for running on the varsity squad since I graduated, and the percentage of runners training over the summer has increased significantly as a result. I think the coach at your HS has the right idea for encouraging his runners to train harder.

duck in the chicken wrote:

3200guy wrote:

I'm not asking for sympathy. I'm not even on this team. But it's a completely different situation for your team to not qualify at a qualifying meet versus a coach making the decision to not take the team to state when they are automatically qualified to go.

Why? The only difference is who decides the runners don't get to go. The coach at my HS has been increasing the standards for running on the varsity squad since I graduated, and the percentage of runners training over the summer has increased significantly as a result. I think the coach at your HS has the right idea for encouraging his runners to train harder.

I'm sure the idea is to encourage them to train harder, but several kids have quit the team. There were a couple seniors who were running for the first time and had been getting prepared for the season. Imagine being told you're not going to run at state. "Not because you're not in the top 7 or because the LHSAA won't let you but because I don't think you're fast enough." That's pretty harsh if you ask me and I'm all about being competitive but part of being competitive is being allowed to compete and if a coach decides you're not good enough to compete then what has the world of sports come to?

bump

If they quit the team over possibly not going to State's, then they weren't into it anyway.

You don't even know if he meant 18:59 or 17:59 ... so I would wait and see before you cry any more.

When I was a freshman I ran an 18:20 3-mile and a 19:03 5k. I was really disappointed that I didn't run faster, as I made the varsity for two meets I think (we had a weak team that year). Our team was not close to making State Meet and I was not close to being on varsity by the end (maybe 10th-12th man).

I trained like a big dog for a year and dropped a 16:40 the next fall. I was still 4th man and our 6th and 7th were around 17:07 and 17:15. We got 2nd at Regionals and 12th out of 24 at State (Class A - largest class) and were undefeated in our conference.

I agree that it is arbitrary to impose a cutoff like that on an open competition, but you need to have some pride and realize that runners who can't break 19:00 during the regular season in a warm, flat state like LA don't belong in a championship meet.

Where are you from? Have you ever been to Louisiana? Believe me, it's probably one of the toughest states to do summer training in. It's well into the 90s almost every day during the summer and humidity gets above 80% almost every day. I would think twice before you say Louisiana is an easy state to train in.

I live in Shreveport and do 100+ mile weeks most summers. It may not be easy but if you want it, you can do it.

I understand where you're coming but you sound like you're whining. The coach and the AD set the rules. The kids that quit can always go run with the local roadrunner group if they want...but they probably won't as they weren't enough into running or the team either to 1) suck it up and meet the standard or 2) take their limited talent, do the most with it and help the team any way they can (ie, run the season and sit for State

Alright 3200guy, I think these "coaches" are way out of line here. Forget what state they're in and how one makes it to the state meet. Put all of that aside for now. These coaches are wrong because they had no idea about the individuals' background/development, yet came up with some "time" that they must beat. I don't care if the time is 17:59, 18:59, 14:59 or 22:59-it is ridiculous. From this alone, I would say that they don't know much about real coaching. Again, I don't care what the time is. This ain't some D1 program or national meet we're talking about here. High school coaching should focus on runners' development and fostering an appreciation for the sport.

You take a group of 20 kids, give them all the generally same training stimulus and there will ALWAYS be a first fastest, second fastest, on down to 20th fastest. And the range within there is most likely going to be quite substantial. This holds true everywhere, every time. Take 20 Kenyans, have them train together and guess what? There will be a 20th fastest out of that group. Believe it or not, some people, including these coaches, do need this explained to them. They all did the same training, so pretty much all worked just as hard, and yet, there still has to be a slowest runner.

Bottom line, a runner isn't going to achieve a certain performance level just because some coach said that's what they must run. Let the kids train, develop physically, develop a hopefully lifelong interest in the sport, and DIRECT them to achieve their personal bests. Don't just TELL them they have to run such-and-such or else. You'll get people on here who, somehow, will manage to miss every point you and I have made, but just know that at least some of us are with you in thinking that these coaches are suspect in their approach with these kids.

Out...