Johnny Gray to be UCLA distance coach

This would be a huge mistake. You want everyone injured and burned out? Johnny Gray did very hard, very intense Igloi styled training that broke most of those who trained with him under Merle McGee. Johnny did 100 mile weeks where he never left the track at times. It works for only a select few. (but, boy, it sure worked for Gray!)

Hey Cush, good to see you here and chiming in.

To those who don't know Cush, I wouldn't mess with him, he's got one of the sharpest minds, and wits around! And was one hell of a runner in his day.

Another nuance on a potential Johnny Gray hire... Taking a look at Alberto Salazar. If you only knew that he came from an era of over-training, and how badly he over-trained himself...you could be led to think he would be a terrible coach.

Yet the opposite is the case, Salazar is one of those rare people who does not stay stuck in his experience or thinking, and instead has learned from his training errors, and also seeks to learn from the latest knowledge in the field, in order to best serve his athletes.

Yet, some of the "posters" on this board still think he over-trains his athletes... All this in the face of a consistent message from Salazar that he consciously takes a very focused approach to prevent over-training, because of what he learned from his own career...and from consistently seeking the latest and best training knowledge from speaking with guys like Bob Kennedy etc.

So, even if one believed the idea that Gray front ran to his own detriment (and to be honest he did have that reputation during his career), it doesn't mean that he would not coach each athlete to run tactics that best suited each athlete.

And God knows, the guy certainly understands training at the elite level.

I just hope whoever they hire that it strengthens the ability to keep the recently resurrected Oregon/UCLA dual meet alive.

I don't even mind if you guys win again ;-)

Bored with the Board wrote:

Bro Guins wrote:

The same Johnny Gray that assisted at Pepperdine and didn't show up reliably?

Cush,

Care to comment on this? I have this before.

I'm not cush but I will say that Pepperdine did not give him what they offered and it was not entirely Johnny's fault. However, a program like UCLA is much more reliable seeing that they have both cross country and track programs. Please remember that Pepperdine did not have a track team and was trying to build one, but it lasted only one season. As far as Johnny Gray being named middle distance coach at UCLA, take a look at what he is currently doing now. He has coached some good athletes to great heights. There is obviously KD, but also he has been working at the high school level taking one boy, Chris Chang (sp?), to the state championships in the 800 after a year that was not all that great. Also, he coached another young man from Calabasas high school named Clayton Graham who ran pretty good times in events from 400 (4x400 leg) to the 2 mile.

With that said, realize that is the HIGH SCHOOL level. I'm not saying that those kids did not have talent because they most probably and in my opinion certainly do. However, the main point is that with a lot more talent from a program like UCLA that did receive some great recruits by the hand of Eric Peterson, it is not out of the question to say that they could have some good times come spring, ex: Cory Primm??

Only time will tell. If the rumor is true. Best of luck to America's finest, Johnny Gray.

-Kyle

a fair post. i don't know many athletes that don't feel the same as you do about johnny--that we could have run faster, smarter, etc. it is also entirely possible that he could have run worse with a different strategy (see kd's sit-and-fade strategy at this year's worlds). i always thought of athletes like johnny as courageous--always testing their limits, many times at the expense of getting beat by other great athletes. how many american distance runners can say that? some, but not many...

i am undoubtedly biased here: johnny is a friend of mine, took me under his wing when i was new to the smtc and the european circuit, and helped me in many ways, for no other reason other than he's a good person. i truly can't respond to other posts questioning his responsibilities with pepperdine, but i never saw him miss a practice when he was training.

if he brings the dedication and discipline i saw in him as an athlete, the charisma and knowledge i've seen in him as a coach at harvard-westlake, and the character he's always displayed in my experiences with him, ucla will be in good hands. not much will be solved on these boards:)--only time will tell....

You idiots are way off point. Read what Right-O said.

and right-o's an expert? johnny never ran 100 mile weeks, nor did i, under joe douglas, another igloi disciple. johnny also did not impose a complete igloi philosophy with his harvard-westlake team.

nice try, mcfly...

That program didn't work for most of the people under it. Admit it. You think college kids are going to handle it? I think not.

From my experiences, Johnny is a great guy as well as being one of America's all-time finest runners. However, if his resume is two successful high-school boys and KD (who was already world-class when he began to work with Johnny), and his only college experience is a brief stint at Pepperdine, then there are many others with such credentials. The fact that he ran at a high level for a long time does not, in and of itself, make him qualified to coach any more than a guy who is often sick is qualified to be a doctor.

I'm not suggesting that he needs more than that. I have often argued that too much emphasis is placed on college experience and not enough on the factors that actually make for a great coach. Johnny may be a great coach, or may become one, but there are other "out of the box" candidates with deeper credentials than his. Also, does Johnny have his degree?

As I said, Johnny seems like a great guy, and if he gets the job, I hope he is successful, both for his own sake and for other non-traditional candidates. I'm surprised, however, that the "you gotta hire a guy with PAC-10 experience" brigade hasn't shown up on this one.

Badiz Maru wrote:

Nowhere in a year, or nowhere in two years? You can say stuff like that now, but it's very hard to back that up. It's along time til we find out. It's at least 5 months before the first indoor race and even that isn't a great indicator of how good the team is. The XC might have a tough time but they might break through. If things don't change in the way the team is organized you are right. But if things do change you could be wrong. Just saying.

So, to clarify, you're saying either he is going to be proven right or he's going to be proven wrong. Thanks for stopping by, friend.

I don't know you, or Johnny Gray, or Eric Peterson, or anybody on the mid distance squad currently at UCLA, but your post showed so much ignorance of the sport of track and field that I couldn't even make myself read the rest of the thread before responding to how ignorant your post is. I'm sure you'll be picked apart harshly by the letsrun critics, and I have never picked anybody apart before, but saying, "It ain't brain surgery," and then following that statement with, "I've seen Johnny run 12 mile tempo runs and intervals that maybe three people in the world could do at the time," makes you sound like you know absolutely nothing about distance or middle distance running. Or sprinting, or any other event. Maybe if it isn't brain surgery, you'll coach the next Olympic Gold, or maybe even just Olympic medalist? Olympic qualifier? Maybe you can come back when you've coached someone to the trials. If Jack Daniel's book were the prerequisite for being a great coach, maybe Jack Daniels would be having more success. And I'm sure he's having more than you. You may only be trying to spew propoganda, but you did such an uncredible job that it made me angry. Johnny Gray might be a fine coach, but your endorsement counts for less than nothing in my book. Who on these boards are you trying to influence?

Yo, strap ye on a maxi-pad and chill out, M-F'er, if you grokked who Cush is/was, you would show more respect. He's solid and smart, and having witnessed his career and interacted with him in person I can grok his point.

Gray excelled. He knows what it takes. Just because he trained and raced one way...Does not mean he would coach each athlete the same way.

Your attack, seems to infer that a former elite athlete would coach each athlete to run as he or she did...and that is really stupid. Most elite athletes get and learn, and know, that each athlete is different.

As for experience, there is volumes to be written about coaches who started strong and then screwed the pooch, and coaches who started horrendous and then got a clue and coached many successes.

If it were a brainless science...then anyone could do it with guaranteed success.

...Change the maxi-pad, insert a tampon, breath, relax, expand your perspective...and apologize to Cush.

He's an exceptionally good guy, probably ran far faster than you, and will forgive your emotionalism...and give you a nice pat on the ass.

Go play nice now.

I trained with Merle and Johnny (once a week or so) in the early to mid 80's, we never did 5 day/week track workouts. Monday/Tuesday track, Wed easy (typically 5 miles)Thursday track, Friday easy, Sat track or roads Sunday long easy. I also never saw him do 100 miles/week. He'll make a fine UCLA middle distance coach in my opinion.

exquisite corpse:

pick away, but READ my posts first.

let me counter and "complexify" points that i was trying to simplify:

1) brain surgery: high on the list of complicated and complex procedures. distance running: low on the aforementioned list. even lower on the list: posting on letsrun. i'm not saying distance running doesn't have its own set of complexities and singularities. what i am trying to point out is that good old-fashioned hard work weighs heavier than intellectual capacities. let me repeat: i'm NOT saying you don't need a brain to coach running, nor am i saying you don't need hard work to be a brain surgeon. sheesh--analogies really lose their acuity when you have to dissect them...

2) 12 mile tempo/intervals: all i'm trying to point out here are the simplicities of distance running. you need long runs. you need intervals. you need quality. you need quantity. herein lies the complexity of distance running: balancing these two appropriately for each athlete.

3) "coached someone to the trials": caught me red-handed, i've never coached someone to the trials, but the fact that i've raced in two trials gives me at least some insight into what it takes to get there. otherwise, i'm just a lowly civil servant coaching high school kids at an inner-city school. you know who HAS coached a kid to the olympic trials and the olympics? johnny gray.

4) jack daniels: you've lost me here. i thought i was acknowledging he was a great resource. so is runners world. i'm just saying the ability to communicate daniels' ideas to athletes and make them work requires something else. by the way, there ain't no "maybe" about it: jack daniels IS having tremendous success. read his book. read about the coaches he's influenced. come back and write another post.

5) influence: why, i'm trying to influence YOU. and doing a piss-poor job at it. fortunately, johnny will do fine without either of us.

well, that's 15 minutes of my life i'll never get back...

Maynard has already interviewed one person and his second candidate flew in yesterday for his interview.

Things are not progressing as quickly as most of you speculate.

Old former SMTC SOB wrote:

I trained with Merle and Johnny (once a week or so) in the early to mid 80's, we never did 5 day/week track workouts. Monday/Tuesday track, Wed easy (typically 5 miles)Thursday track, Friday easy, Sat track or roads Sunday long easy. I also never saw him do 100 miles/week. He'll make a fine UCLA middle distance coach in my opinion.

I also trained with Merle, then Joe in the late 70s and early 80s. His workouts were killers that ended up spitting most of the guys out the back-end. Most of the guys were fried from the workouts and under performed in the meets. All I am saying is; that if he tries to put the Igloi/McGee-system in at UCLA; it will burn out alot of those 18-21 year olds.

Hi yes the workouts were tough, but I think that most that went through it and ended up coaching (Gray included) would use them as a base, and modify according to individual tolerance. My personal feeling is that if a few more kids were exposed to a modified and watered down form of Igloi's methods starting in HS, we'd have a lot more high quality middle distance and distance runners today in the US. The other obvious issue in todays world is that the kids are lazy, and lack the drive to be high quality runners...its too difficult. But thats another story.

Westwood Alum wrote:

Maynard has already interviewed one person and his second candidate flew in yesterday for his interview.

Things are not progressing as quickly as most of you speculate.

Is this for the sprints position or the distance position? Is Gray Maynard's choice? Does the Women's Head Coach have any say in the hiring of the distance coach-I assume she would since her athletes will be involved?

Bruin Band wrote:

I hope this rumor isn't true. I know Johnny Gray was an outstanding runner in the 800 meters during his era. But in order to be a successful coach at a place like UCLA, you have to be passionate about what you do. You have to show up to work everyday. You have to be reliable and as solid as a rock. You have to be a good communicator, and you have to be able to multi-task when you are coaching every event from 800 meters up to 10,000. I don't see any of these qualities in Johnny Gray. He might be a nice guy but he should not be hired to coach my alma mater UCLA.

Johnny is actually not a nice guy. He flips out when anyone who beat him in a race back in the day brings it up. He's also psycho when dealing with employees in running shoe stores, restaurants, etc. He's whacked. Ask anyone who really knows him. To be even more blunt, he doesn't have enough going on to be a head coach anywhere.

Forest Braden