Penn State XC

they had big 10 champs in 800 and 1500. Mark Miller has since graduated, but he was never a cross guy either. It'll be interesting to see if they can finally peek their top guys at the right time of year. Hopefully they are on track to do just that and hence why 3 tops guys didnt run their home meet.

Although I must say it is a little embarrasing to have syracuse go 1-6 at PSU's home meet... I mean come on.

They got 9th last year at big tens beating only Purdue who put zero money into distance. They need some serious help, even if their top three runners ran syracuse still would of went 1-6, and syracuse's best guy didnt even run.

It truly is a shame to see how far Penn State's progam has fallen.

I should have been more specific, and you are right it is not XC talent.

They also have McNally 4:08 mile in HS, Lionel Williams 1:50.x low as a frosh.

Borchers 4:02 and 1;49 as a frosh.But none are great XC runners that is true, but they have some high end possibilities.

There's your answer - she will lie to your face and stab you in the back. Her last year at Stanford she basically used her position to vault into her current one. That this meant that one 1st year athlete had 2 stress fractures under her "guidance" didn't matter - Beth got her job at PSU.

As an ex Penn Stater, it is sad to see the program in it's current state.

Hat's off to Chris Fox at Saracuse. He has worked hard recruiting and building his team.

Penn State needs a coach like him for the distance runners, someone with a good reputation, who has been there, done that, and willing to work hard with the kids.

They had their best finish in the Big Ten Outdoor Championships in many years this past spring.

True, our track program is good for Big Ten. However, its not because of our distance guys. We still need to turn around our cross program.

Dam... there are an awful lot of haters out there...

The current state of the PSU program includes 4 good athletes not racing this past weekend and a couple others having an off day after training very hard last week. Could they have beaten Syracuse, probably not, but it would have been a lot closer... If you want to base a season off of a race on September 13 - fine, but October and November are when it counts.

You also have to consider that SU has decided to invest most, if not all, of their scholarship into distance running. Coach Fox has done a great job with their athletes and has his cross country program in a great spot - but it has been at the expense of track. SU was 9th in the Big East last year on the track.... with most all of their points coming from upperclassmen left-over sprinters/field event athletes who where on the team prior to his arrival. They might even do worse this year unless his distance runners can dominate in a conference loaded with distance athletes.

It would be an interesting comparison to see how much scholarship the top seven SU athletes were on who raced Saturday compared to PSU's to seven. My guess is it was close to 7 scholarships for SU to about 2 or less for PSU.

PSU had a great track season last year - Big Ten Champs in the 800 and 1500, a fourth place finish at the indoor Big Ten's (just 3 points from third) - which is the best PSU has ever finished - and then red-shirted a bunch of athletes outside. So the state of the program can not be as terrible as you state it is. It would seem to me it is actually on the rise. Plus, there are a lot of talented athletes in the program who are just freshman and sophomores right now (do your research on it and you will see).

One last tid-bit to remember - PSU was 10th, 7th, 9th and 9th at the Big Ten XC Championship Harry's last 4 years. When a program is burried that deep in the hole, it takes some time to dig it out. As I am sure anyone out there knows who has run collegiate XC - it takes some time to get adjusted to racing the longer distance for freshman and soph's. This year only incorporates PSU's second recruiting class (Coach Fox has had three) - so my verdict is still out. I also think they are better than what they showed on Saturday - so take it easy haters... See what happens by the end of the year when it really matters.

I think Sullivan's record speaks for itself with the girls.

That girls xc team has anywhere from 3-6 footlocker finalists on it a year. (They usually recruit one or two a year.)

With that type of recruiting they should be #1 or 2 in the Big Ten, but they've been 4th-7th lately.

Face it, Sullivan is a great recruiter... but a horrible coach.

I expect a similar future for the guy's program. (great recruits going no where)

How can a 4:01 miler run that slow for 5.2 miles? That is just sad...I don't care if he doesn't like cross, he should still be able to run decent, and for as much talent as he has that run wasn't decent at all. Stop using your PR's as pickup lines Borchers, get some miles in over the summer, and maybe you'll improve a little. But what can you expect...PSU is the "BLACK HOLE" of distance runners. Good talent goes in...you never hear from them again.

Borchers is the defending Big Ten 1500 champion and the current PSU school record holder in the mile. I guess that means all the other great PSU runners who are behind him on the all-time list got sucked into the black hole under Harry..... Again, chill out haters...

Didn't Sam run a 4:01 in high school though, or the equivalent of that for a 1500?

He still falls under the recruiting status. If Sullivan turns him into a 3:55 miler than he won't be part of the black hole. I don't care if he has the Penn State record. He would have set that as senior in hs.

It's about DEVELOPING runners past their prep talent.

Sam borches tried to hit on my gf by saying somthin like "yeah i was a 1:49, 4:03 guy in highschool, no big deal." true story. she said he was the biggest tool shes ever met. atleast hes fast though. go to pennstate for football not running.

Until he has some consistent running under his belt for a season or two, the hating will stop, but this kid hasn't had anything but spotty performances over his college career, he may have just started but i'd say running 28 minutes for 5.2 miles is something a 10:20 3200 runner in high school should be running in their second year of college, not a 4:01 and 1:49 guy. I'm sorry but that is just horrendous.

Did Botchers break Mangan's record in the mile? I thought Mangan broke 4 minutes in college. Also, a miler can be a good xc runner as Mangan finished 14th at NCAA nationals.

All I am saying is PSU needs a Fox type coach.

PSU Fan wrote:

Borchers is the defending Big Ten 1500 champion and the current PSU school record holder in the mile. I guess that means all the other great PSU runners who are behind him on the all-time list got sucked into the black hole under Harry..... Again, chill out haters...

The Penn State record in the mile is 3:58 - NOT Borchers.

Wow, Syracuse has a decent team this year. From the looks of those times, and the short spread, they may be a top 10 team this year. Unless they are peaking right now, which I doubt.

Recruiting is one thing; it doesn't take coaching talent, which Beth S doesn't have. It's amazing the crap she has told kids and they buy it. She basically got her job at PSU based on Lanana's recruiting at Stanford and she has done nothing to prove she is a good clach since.

From The Stands wrote:

Did Botchers break Mangan's record in the mile? I thought Mangan broke 4 minutes in college. Also, a miler can be a good xc runner as Mangan finished 14th at NCAA nationals.

I checked Penn State's all-time lists, Borcher ranks 6th in the mile(4:01.98) and doesn't come close to ranking in any other event, including the 1500m

He was a 4:03 miler in high school.