Respect for ALL runners

theybare perhaps just happy to be involved with running- not for the glory or success but the companionship and being a member of a team/club.

They get personal satisfaction from training and being part of the running scene at any cost- 85mpw etc.

You are not the only one. Hard core runners who have been around appreciate them. I rmember road races with 50 people at the most. No money, no awards, no traffic control- we just raced. With the running boom came more and better organization. More awards for the faster runners, better races, and people (the middle of the packers) who appreciated what the faster guys did.

I think that they're no better or worse as people than those at the front of the race and deserve respect as people. And I think that anyone who exercises regularly is commendable and doing a good thing for their health.

But I don't see why midpackers are deserving of any particular admiration. I can't bench press a lot of weight. This is largely because I'm not naturally muscular and never will be, and partly because I'm not willing to make weight lifting a main priority in my life. Do you think that the serious lifters should consider me worthy of admiration and some sort of special affirmation? I don't.

Big difference here. You said you're not willing to make weight lifting a main priority in your life. However, what about the people who DO make running their main priority, running basically the same regimen as their faster counterparts? I think people are just saying that they're deserving of respect for having that same - or nearly the same - commitment as the elites.

And just because you didn't hit the genetic lottery does NOT mean you deserve any less respect for the hard work you put in. Respect and admire the fast guys/gals, but don't discount the mid-packers. Just sayin'...

Those who show the most disdain for mid or back of the packers are often those the most dissatisfied with their own running and the fact that they will never be elites.

For me its an inspiration that all different people of all different abilities can make and set their own personal goals. I think that sometimes in running we get so caught up in our own racing and training that we forget that we were once like those "mid packers." I admire these people at these local races because they know your name and still are happy to just break 25 for a 5K. They are really what make running worthwhile.

I left this message (thread) yesterday, and immediately regretted it. I figured it would be fodder for idiots to feed on. I'm glad to see there is some respect out there. Let it be known that I'm no stud (mid-16's for 5k) ,but in the realm of local races that (for better or worse)is front of the pack. As was mentioned in a previous thread, these people know you (and your previous accomplishments, times, etc) and want to talk about you. I've always figured it should be easier for someone blessed (cursed?!) w/ a better combo of fast-twitch/ slow-twitch, vo2 max ,etc to train since you know there is a socially-appreciated (I know ,I totally made that up!) reward out there. But how hard to train 80 mpw knowing you'll run ave. times? THAT'S dedication!

I totally agree. I'm running right around the same times as you, so I'm not a great runner by any means, but I have a shot at winning just about any local race that I run. Though I am primarily intrinsically motivated, there are a lot of extrinsic rewards for me and others in my position. For the mid pack and slower, there are only intrinsic rewards. Any person who works their ass off just to make themselves better without any of the recognition or rewards has my respect.

The guy who said that the people who bash mid-packers are the people who are most dissatisfied with their own running is right on.

The people in the middle of the pack don't run 85 miles per week, are you kidding? If they did, they would immediately move much closer to the front. Unless a person is at least in their mid-40s it is nearly impossible to run 85 per week and not break 18 or 19 for 5K, and it becomes even better at longer races. I'm sure less than 1% of people who can handle 100 per week cannot break 3:10 for a marathon. Think of how long those people who run 4-hour marathons would be out there every day if they ran 100 per week. Race pace is 9:09, so they would have to train at least 45/mile slower, say 9:54. To do 100 per week, they would need to run an average of 2:21 per day. Who the hell runs nearly 2-1/2 hours every day and runs in the middle of the pack?

I think admiration and respect are two different things. I respect mid-packers (like myself) who train hard considering they only do it for fun, not endorsements or recogition, and live a healthy life. I don't really admire them though. To admire means you look up to them and aspire to be like them. I don't have deep admiration for people who pretty much do what I do already. I admire people who are better than me, like the elites.

I give a lot of credit to those running the marathon 4+ hours. And I'm talking about the ones that are running the whole time, not just out for a stroll. In my mind, I see me running for 3 hours being tough, No WAY do I want to be out running much longer than that mentally speaking. So, yea, those that are out there pushing themselves mentally and physically that long...huge props[quote]irunnike87 wrote:

dos centavos wrote:

Big difference here. You said you're not willing to make weight lifting a main priority in your life. However, what about the people who DO make running their main priority, running basically the same regimen as their faster counterparts? I think people are just saying that they're deserving of respect for having that same - or nearly the same - commitment as the elites.

And just because you didn't hit the genetic lottery does NOT mean you deserve any less respect for the hard work you put in. Respect and admire the fast guys/gals, but don't discount the mid-packers. Just sayin'...

I differentiate between respect and admiration. People deserve respect for who they are and what qualities they have. If working hard to get better at something they enjoy doing is part of who they are, that should be respected in them. They have as much right to be out there training and running as anyone else.

But I still don't know why someone deserves admiration for making something they're bad at a main priority in their life. The OP referred to midpackers in local road races. If you're training 80 mpw to run a 25 min. 5K, IMO you've passed beyond committed into delusional. But I still respect that you're out there doing what you like.

Why would anyone have any disrespect for mid-pack runners? Without the average and below average entrants most road races would never take place.

I guess that would be fine for some of the nimrod pseudo elites who would prefer every race be like a track 5/10K, limited entrants and unlimited excuses by everyone except the winner.

I enjoy and respect the mid-packers; they're the ones who make it a running community, rather than a smattering of individuals. They're the balance to the elites whose existence shows me something to strive for.

As one poster pointed out, mid-packers are rarely high-mileage runners, at least in the way that term is used on this board. If you're running 80+ mpw, you'll at least be under 20 mins for the 5K, unless you're elderly-- of course, I know a couple of runners in their 60s who still consistently run sub-20 for the 5K.

The vast majority of us will end up as mid-packers eventually; after all, most people can't remain fanatics forever. I plan to spend the next ten years or so being a running fanatic, developing every last bit of whatever talent I have, but eventually it will have to make room for other priorities. Better to slide gracefully into being a mid-packer than to give it up altogether and become an ex-runner. Those, anyway, are my thoughts.

Southerner wrote:

I guess that would be fine for some of the nimrod pseudo elites who would prefer every race be like a track 5/10K, limited entrants and unlimited excuses by everyone except the winner.

Post of the day!!!!!

I agree. But look at the incongruency of the homepage stories. The quote takes a swipe at 4:45 milers and the lesser in high school. Polls on the importance of a sub 5 min. beer mile ,then gives a statistical comparison. on traffic fatalities and heart attacks during a marathon.

I knew kids who would never break 5 for a mile, but loved it a lot more than some who could run 4:25 off natural ability and eventually quit.

jmo if youcan 4:45 you are not going to be Kenyan National junior champ, but by no means do you suck. If you walk around like El Guerroj, then, you're delusional.

And alot of kids today talk abot their mile times,when not factoring in the other 9 meters.1600 not quite a mile.

I do respect the midpackers. I know quite a few people that put in the same amount of miles that I do each week who are not as fast as I am. I don't know that I would have continued to run as many years as I have if I wasn't competitive at races placing overall or in my age group. However...I am often snubbed by midpackers. There is another woman I see running in my neighborhood several times a week. I ALWAYS nod or say hi. She ALWAYS deverts her eyes and refuses to acknowledge me. She does the same things when I see her at races. One of these days I'm going to call her on it and ask her what the hell her problem is.

I'm back after a mostly-unsuccessful day of ice fishing in the rain. Hard to believe a runner would be stupid enough to stay in the rain on a frozen lake all day, I know. So, the thread rambles on. As the OP ,I should clarify several things. The original post was meant to convey that while I respect & admire the high-mileage, slow- timed (another complete make-up by me), I certainly don't aspire to be them- Father Time will hook me up in that area just fine, and I have all the patience in the world!! I am referring to the post-high school and college age runner ,not the high school runners. They have their own issues independant of running. And I know plenty of runners my age (38) who run 70-100 mpw ,and can't break 22-23 min in the 5k. They obviously enjoy the miles and whole ensemble of the healthy lifestyle. I personally enjoy too many pizzas, chips, ice cream, etc. to say that I eat healthy. My weekly mileage has all the consistancy of baby food. My running clothes...well, they stink! There is a group of people who do all the right things, end up with all the wrong times, and yet they probaly understand, love and respect the sport more than any 3 of us combined. I find that truly incredible!