Masters Weekend Races and Runs

Masters,

I come for advice/guidance.

I consider myself somewhat of a "masters" runner. I'm 27, and have only run for 3 years (with only 2 being somewhat serious).

i'm running my first half marathon in Phoenix in four weeks. Today I ran my longest run, 12 miles in 84 minutes. The first 9 were easy, and I finished in 620, 600 and 600. This is probably a little misleading, as it was 22 degrees outside, and the footing was far from ideal.

My most recent workouts have been,

1x5k in 1830, half mile jog, 1x1 mile in 530

and

2 miles in 1125, then one mile in 526, and one more mile in 523.

I've been running 30-40 miles a week all year, with some intermintant biking. My long runs in prep for this race have been 8,9, 11,10, 11, and 12 miles.

Do you have any insight for how to run your first 13 mile race fast? i'd like to think I could maintain 600 pace the whole way, but I'm not sure if my other prs (1645 5k and 455 mile), really support this.

Thanks.

Oh, the race is the Phoenix RNR. I'll be there on vacation, and will have a week to get use to the warmth, I can't wait.

Hey Johnny Rotten,

I would like to chat about HS training with you if you don't mind. Do you have an email address or do you log your miles on Running2Win or anything?

And to ChiRunner.....I sent you an email last week. Did you get it?

kevinb, it was great to meet you and your wife last weekend. You are hilarious! I hope that both of you gear up for winter xc at San Diego.

I had a down week planned and it probably was a good thing. Work was crazy & the kids took priority this week and most of my runs were in the dark and short & on the roads. I did get a long one on the trails today (with the mud, I now need to buy "real" trail shoes) and a trail run yesterday, finishing in the dark (always a bit dangerous!).

On the plus side, I baked a ton of cookies with my friend this weekend and went out and cut our tree today (me, my two teenaged girls & my young son -- always an adventure!). It stuns me that Christmas is so soon & I haven't done any shopping! =;-0 So much to do & so little time.

In thinking about the xc race last weekend, the thing that makes me most unhappy about my race is my slow start. I moved up really nicely throughout, but with such a small field, eventually ran out of close-in people to chase and without a good "race" going on, I kind of lost motivation and momentum.

I really need to find some speed to get me out in good position the first half mile. Suggestions anyone? Do you think I can handle form drills again? (Last time, I got hurt, but I'm probably stronger now).

Please don't say just "run harder" or "try harder" -- I am good at keeping pace, but I honestly don't have much quick speed. (e.g. back when I was faster, I couldn't run faster than 19 seconds for a 100 and would run 400s in 74 -- and a mile in 4:56). I'm aiming for an 8k and the situation is worse in a 6k, but I'd still like to be able to go out in the beginning of a race WITH the people running my eventual pace instead of playing catch-up the first mile.

A friend & local coach suggests that I become a vegan and lose some weight, but honestly, I'd really rather work on something in my training than fuss with trying to cut more weight (and it's not like I have lots to lose, either). So, you closet coaches, please give me suggestions on things to read or try.

I don't know if she regularly posts or if last week was an exception, but I wanted to congratulate Laurie D. on her finish at xc nationals. She finished a fraction of a second ahead of a woman on the 2nd place team & without that, the teams would have tied. It was cool to see the finishing video and watch the two of them battle to the very end. Also, there's a really lovely photo of her and her teammates at the finish on the Columbus Running website - not the staged one at the awards (although that's probably nice), but a candid one of the three of them right after the finish. Really a good shot.

No snow here, thankfully -- just rain and the beginning of mud season (aka winter)!

PS - Anyone out there run in Inov8? I'm looking at the terroc and which ever one is for the mud.

whats up? Turned over 65 miles this week. Plus started Nautalis. Did a good tempo and some pickups during a run. Feel good. Had to do tons of plowing too. lots of snow today and tonight.

muddy girl wrote:

kevinb, You are hilarious!

yeah, but looks are not everything....

it was a pleasure meeting you as well. i am planning on running well at winters nationals. i doubt the wife will be running them though.

as for your speed, i like doing workouts like this:

300, 500, 700, 900, 700, 500, 300 (adjust the total mileage of the workout according to what you are training for). also, i am a fan of short recovery, less than the repeat preceding it and no more than 3 minutes (even with mile repeats).

forces you to go fast early, stay strong in the middle, and then run fast again when you are tired.

strides (10x100) on long days too.

muddy girl wrote:

kevinb, You are hilarious!

yeah, but looks are not everything....

it was a pleasure meeting you as well. i am planning on running well at winters nationals. i doubt the wife will be running them though.

as for your speed, i like doing workouts like this:

300, 500, 700, 900, 700, 500, 300 (adjust the total mileage of the workout according to what you are training for). also, i am a fan of short recovery, less than the repeat preceding it and no more than 3 minutes (even with mile repeats).

forces you to go fast early, stay strong in the middle, and then run fast again when you are tired.

strides (10x100) on long days too.

Ms. Muddy --about the need for speed: Sometimes it's just a genetic thing. I was blessed with an abundance of fast-twitch fibers, but I have the stamina of a poodle. I am amazed and envious of you longer-distance folks and your amazing ability to pace and hold it for what seems to me an incredible length of a race or run.

Having said that, you can enhance whatever level you have. One of the best ways is through resistance work. By enhancing strength in your leg muscle groups you increase the force you apply each time your leg pushes off from the track or road. That will in turn propel you at a greater velocity. You may not be able to increase your leg turnover rate, but you can increase the distance traveled with each stride when you are in your acceleration phase at the beginning of your race.

About losing weight or adopting a vegan diet --I'm sure your current running has allowed your body to reach a healthy level. I would love to lose 5 lbs, but I seem to have reached the weight at which my body settles at during hard training. So I'm going to be content with that, even though I am far from svelte! And every coach and nutritionist I've worked with has emphasized high quality protein from animal sources. I make sure I stick with the lean cuts of meat, but weight training requires adequate fuel and muscle needs protein to grow.

So if you have the notion, perhaps adding weight training a couple of times a week will satisfy your "need for speed!"

skinnbones wrote:

Hey Johnny Rotten,

I would like to chat about HS training with you if you don't mind. Do you have an email address or do you log your miles on Running2Win or anything?

And to ChiRunner.....I sent you an email last week. Did you get it?

Sure:

AEtheridge at ORTN.edu

Howdy Masters.

Wintery week here too.

Did 10.5 hilly miles this morning on icy roads, making 54 miles for the week. Hill repeats Tuesday p.m., 2-mile tempo run Thursday p.m.

Saturday morning ran with a small group in the snow along the lakeshore for 7.5 miles. We saw at least half a dozen bald eagles, a large number of which spend part of the winter here to hunt spawning kokanee in the lake.

OMBTS, very cool you've returned to the sacred oval. Tracks here are buried under snow right now so my "speedwork" is on hills or a paved rec trail that is periodically plowed.

Hey Muddy Girl, I have a similar problem. Well, my speed is OK (relatively speaking), but I've never been a fan of going out hard. One of my old coaches would sometimes have the team run a hard 400 on the track before heading into the woods for a distance run. No rest. Just settle into pace and keep going.

I've been thinking about trying something like that again. Getting out hard — almost a necessity in XC — is a racing skill some of us probably don't actually practice enough.

Have a good week everybody.

Thank you for the suggestions! I will look at my training plan this week and make some adjustments. spikez - endurance of a *poodle*? That made me laugh! ;-D

Ex-Coast, I am a big fan, obviously, of the "go out conservatively" tactic (and apparently my HS runners AND my daughter have copied that), but you are right, sometimes in xc you really do have to get out there. I don't need to lead, but I do need to find a way to hang onto the front pack so the gap isn't so big.

We ran at VCP (NYC) and Garrett Mountain (NJ) in HS and both headed into a narrow path after 400m, so my HS coach was panicked about me not getting out fast enough. He really tried to drill it into my head/legs, so much so that I had an opportunity to run at VCP as a master and, for the first time in ages, went out TOO fast & was in the lead at 400m! ;-) It didn't last, of course, but I thought it was interesting that that impulse came right back!

Thanks for the help!!

I will be there also running the half. Sounds like you are doing fine. Just don't go out too fast, maintain an even pace and if you feel extra strong at 10 or 11 miles pick it up. That's the only advice I can give. I'll be there a week before also and would run with you but you are faster than me, but then I am twice your age!!!

skinnbones, sorry but I didn't get an email. Email address is chirunner at comcast.net.

The Midwest is not an easy place to train in winter. More snow pre Christmas than I can remember, but the kids love it. Our snow plows put down a lot of salt, so it's slushy and slippery on the roads. Sunday's 10 miler felt like a lot more. But hey, spring is only 5 months away!

One of my old coaches would sometimes have the team run a hard 400 on the track before heading into the woods for a distance run. No rest. Just settle into pace and keep going.

That's a Pre(Oregon) workout, we also did this in college.

Coach B

Bdubs,

Your long run is pretty decent, but it's hard to extrapolate from your 5k PR to a HM. You should be able to hold close to a 6:00 pace, but if it feels a bit fast after 5k, slow down to ~6:15 and get through the next 10k. Over half the field will be significantly slower in their last few miles. Hydration is important - resist the urge to skip too many water stops. Slow down slightly and get a good 4 oz. of water every two miles.

Good luck!

Ths strategy also works in road 5ks - i find I need to go out faster than my average pace to avoid dealing with the weekend warriers who put on their brakes after 400m.

Benfield409 wrote:

One of my old coaches would sometimes have the team run a hard 400 on the track before heading into the woods for a distance run. No rest. Just settle into pace and keep going.

Coach B

I lucked out this week. I live in the Seattle area, and am a definite second-tier guy ... if anybody really good shows up, I don't get an age group trophy.

Well, this week all the fast guys (Tony, Paul Abdalla, Frederick Motteler to name a few off the top of my head) stayed home. I think maybe they were tired from the XC nationals last week. So I managed to win the Masters division of a pretty good sized local race (12Ks of Christmas in Kirkland). I'm 48, and the oldest guy that beat me yesterday was 37. I got 17th out of 937 overall.

Kind of a fluke, but I'll take it. It's my Christmas present. :-)

Muddy,

I have sold Inov-8 at my store for 3 years. Mainly Terroc and Flyroc. The diff between the 2 is the outsole. Flyroc fits abit wider and has a more aggressive tread, I wouldn't run any roads with it. Terroc fits a bit narrower and has more of a lugger sole so roads are okay. Smallest size in Terroc is a womans 6. Flyroc size 5.5.

nyloco wrote: Ths strategy also works in road 5ks - i find I need to go out faster than my average pace to avoid dealing with the weekend warriers who put on their brakes after 400m.

If I charge hard from the gun in a 5k (well, any race almost), I die a long, painful miserable death in the last ~ 2 km. I love hanging back at the start and then working my way through the kids who sprint from the gun. Ditto for XC, although last week some guy suggested to me on this thread I should have done the opposite in my last XC race. Who know, maybe he was right?

Speaking of HS runners, this weekend my wife got a copy of a cool DVD called "Run Like a Girl," which takes a look at thee generations of women runners using archival film, photos and interviews.

Doris Heritage, Charlotte Lettis Richardson (the writer/director) and WA. high schooler Camille Connelly are featured. It's about 40 minutes long. Very cool. Anybody with a sense of history for the sport will like it. We got it online at www. runnlikeagirlfilm.com.