Democrats working on a bill to require new fuel economy standards

the market is already forcing people to do the "right thing". the rising gas prices are already having an effect on car purchases. People are going for the higher gas mileage vehicles, not because the government told them to, but because it's cheaper.

a lot of economists think that gas prices are still too LOW. if congress really wants to reduce emissions, they should put a higher tax on gas, but they would never do that because it would make them extremely unpopular. instead they create complicated policies, like minimum mpg ratings, that really end up costing the consumer more than a tax would, and they create imperfections in the market that cause all kinds of weird effects, one of which is an increase in automobile accident deaths. read the article a few posts above and do some research of your own.

formidable doer of the nasty wrote:

The average MPG (or km/l as it were) of cars in Europe is almost twice what it is in the US. I know Americans are fatter and all, but something is seriously f***ed up here.

This goes back to the debate about the Kyoto Treaty. The "administration" wouldn't play because it didn't force third-world countries to reduce their output as much, but they're totally ignoring what environmental pigs Americans are. 5% of the world's population emitting 1/3 of it's carbon. I guess you have to be a Republican to think that's reasonable...

Oh my gosh that was the most ignorant rant I have ever read. You pretty much drilled yourself into the typical hippie, ignorant, stereotype. The reason the MPG are double is because the cost of gas is double. Have you ever been to Europe? There is not much space either, smaller cars are much more convenient.

Americans are not "fatter", our Euro buddies are just as chubby. Fish and Chips chased with pints of the stout are not to friendly on the waist line.

Seriously, go do some research and think for yourself for just a second. Don't just blindly follow what others tell you liberal or conservative. Think clearly and logically. That was stupid.

t's about time they get rid of non-commercial use of huge tubs on the highways aka SUVs and trucks. the max speed limit of any vehicle over 3,000 pounds should be reduced to 55 MPH with a no margin, no slack federal mandate.

Question: How does the price of gas effect Miles Per Gallon? Uhhhhh....it doesn't.

European cars are just smaller. The mini-cooper was a hit in Europe well before it came over here.

Alan

youareachild wrote:

[quote]formidable doer of the nasty wrote:

Americans are not "fatter", our Euro buddies are just as chubby. Fish and Chips chased with pints of the stout are not to friendly on the waist line.

Not true; any time I've come home from overseas, I notice immediately that there are many more huge people in the USA.

Do they not know what this will do to the price of cars? The government has no business in something like this, absolutely ridiculous.

bullshit. the mini-cooper is nowhere to be found in europe. c3's are everywhere though but not in the usa. i've never seen one stateside. you need a hummer to haul the fat american women around in. that's the problem. your whiney american wives are fattened and larger coffins have to be made. only the undertakers benefit.

Do they not know what this will do to the price of cars? The government has no business in something like this, absolutely ridiculous.

Didn't we do this for a few years in the late 70's?

The Honda Civic got over 50 mpg's then. It is twice as big now and gets about 35. Even the sub-compact cars are much heavier now than 30 years ago and barely get 40 mpg.

The 2006 BMW 325i I sold this week weighed 3250 pounds. (Too many maintenance issues. I bought a Lexus to replace it.) With a little design work, it could very easily make the 3000 pound limit and drop to 2750 pounds, as could all sedans.

Runningart2004 wrote:

Question: How does the price of gas effect Miles Per Gallon? Uhhhhh....it doesn't.

European cars are just smaller. The mini-cooper was a hit in Europe well before it came over here.

Alan

You would have to be absolutely retarded to think that the price of gas has no effect on the mpg of cars. Oh wait, you are. It's basic economics, Alan. If the price of gas increases, there will be a higher demand for cars with better fuel economy, and the manufacturers will oblige by making cars that have higher mpg ratings.

I can't believe you would say "European cars are just smaller" without even thinking about why they might be smaller. You have to be one of the most idiotic people on this board.

Runningart2004 wrote:

Question: How does the price of gas effect Miles Per Gallon? Uhhhhh....it doesn't.

European cars are just smaller. The mini-cooper was a hit in Europe well before it came over here.

Alan

Exactly, European cars are smaller b/c the price of gas is so high, therefore it is cheaper to drive a smaller car. As a result the MPG of the average european car is lower than the american's. i think you know what i meant. you usually have fairly intelligent posts.

btw, Mini Coopers are all over London. The old one and the new.

great idea wrote:

bullshit. the mini-cooper is nowhere to be found in europe.

Well, for example, it's found in my driveway right now. Ireland is in Europe, right?

All cars should have detachable seats.

youareachild wrote:

Oh my gosh that was the most ignorant rant I have ever read. You pretty much drilled yourself into the typical hippie, ignorant, stereotype. The reason the MPG are double is because the cost of gas is double. Have you ever been to Europe? There is not much space either, smaller cars are much more convenient.

Americans are not "fatter", our Euro buddies are just as chubby. Fish and Chips chased with pints of the stout are not to friendly on the waist line.

Seriously, go do some research and think for yourself for just a second. Don't just blindly follow what others tell you liberal or conservative. Think clearly and logically. That was stupid.

Ignorant AND belligerent. That's always a winning combination on letsrun. Not to mention funny.

I have to say you make an excellent case for a consumption tax on gas. I always thought higher gas prices might just cause people to drive fewer miles, but if they actually drive up MPG then I'm all for higher taxes.

Americans are not fatter??? Right, they're just big-boned. And the fact that an average US male has waist size 38" while in Europe it's 30-34" depending on the country, well tha-ha-hat's just a measurement error.

Fish and Chips and stout? Vs. what? Cheeseburgers, chili fries and Mountain Dew? WTF? This is a running board (at least in name) so maybe some people understand caloric intake vs. energy output, don't you think? I still haven't found a fish and chips and stout drive-through, but I'll sure look for it next time I'm in Europe.

Sorry I'm not a logical and independent thinker like you.

three thou is doable now. just mandate it and toyota will have cars boxed and packed into ups/fedex vans at the georgetown, kentucky plant come january 1, 2008 ;-)

after 5 years, any vehicle over 3000 pounds, including cars, SUVs, minivans, light trucks, commercial trucks, etc. should have a max speed limit of 55 MPH. big rigs all ready are at that limit in city areas and on open highways in most states.

how about reducing the speed limit? interstate back to 55mph, highways 50mph, and heres and idea for the highway patrols, actually enforce it!

Why cant we start with this simple premise that reduces gas consumption, saves lives, and improves fuel economy?

Sure, just get rid of the engine! Do you really think 250 pounds can easily be cut from that car without sacrificing safety, perceived quality, electronics, power, or rigidity? Puh-lease.

Manufacturing Engineer wrote:

The 2006 BMW 325i I sold this week weighed 3250 pounds. (Too many maintenance issues. I bought a Lexus to replace it.) With a little design work, it could very easily make the 3000 pound limit and drop to 2750 pounds, as could all sedans.

After reading this thread, I can only conclude that most of the contributors here understand neither automotive design or economics. Of course, neither does congress, so we've got that going for us.Not all 3000 lb vehicles are inherently fuel efficient, so your standard is completely arbitrary. Do some analysis on the factors that influence EPA fuel economy ratings and you'll see that a vehicle's power is BY FAR the largest single determinant of its fuel economy. Of course, heavier cars tend to be more powerful, but a simple government-mandated standard on weight or HP is sure to have many unintended consequences. Also, lightweight materials are not cheap, and many take much more energy to produce than steel.Bob Lutz said it best...CAFE legislation is like mandating people get thinner by not eliminating XL pants. It's politically popular because the costs are seen as indirect (as opposed to a gas tax), so congress can claim they've magically saved the world by legislative fiat. The reality is that CAFE will result in added costs to automakers. These costs will be passed onto consumers (possibly in a regressive fashion, in that small cheap cars will cost more on a percentage basis). CAFE will also further force automakers to look for ways to cut cost elsewhere, by further off-shoring manufacturing, reducing choices to the consumer, or cutting corners in design. Some of the worst cars EVER designed resulted from the original CAFE implementation, and I predict that many great cars available today will be cut to help manufacturers meet CAFE standards. Ready for a FWD 120 HP WRX or a 170 HP 'vette?

three thou wrote:

three thou is doable now. just mandate it and toyota will have cars boxed and packed into ups/fedex vans at the georgetown, kentucky plant come january 1, 2008 ;-)

after 5 years, any vehicle over 3000 pounds, including cars, SUVs, minivans, light trucks, commercial trucks, etc. should have a max speed limit of 55 MPH. big rigs all ready are at that limit in city areas and on open highways in most states.