Who is the best world miler/1500m runner EVER?

Bedford Scouse wrote:

Got to agree. Has to be Herb Elliott. You can't argue with

1. World records at mile (knocked 2.7 secs off in one go!) and 1500m.

2. Ran in only one Olympics and won by nearly 3 seconds in a World Record (broke record by 2.5 secs)

3. Unbeaten in 44 consecutive 1500/mile races, before retiring.

Easily the Best!

ditto another vote for Herb.

where's the John Landy love? He trained harder and ran faster times than Bannister. Lose one race and be banished to obscurity. And he looked the most like Jerry Seinfeld.

1960 Herb Elliott, AUS 3:35.6 WR

1996 Noureddine Morceli, ALG 3:35.78

2004 Hicham El Guerrouj, MOR 3:34.18

36 years after Elliott wins the Gold on a crappy track

the DOMINANT Morceli wins with a slower time on an all weather surface

and 44 years later El G (also on an all weather surface)

beats Elliotts time by a whooping 1 & a half seconds

WOW! How could anyone ever mention Elliott as one of the best? I get so tired of people talking about him like he was really great or something. So he won like 40 some races against the best in the world and the silver in the Olympics was some loser Frenchman who had a world record, The Fact that he won that Olympic final by a record 20 metres over a future world record holder probably just means that he was the best doper of that era.

of course his time would have also won in

1964

and 72

and 76

and 80

and 88

and of course 1992

oh yeah and 1996

But those guys were just losers, guys with names like

Snell, Walker, Coe and MORCELI

Maybe Elliott is not the greatest miler of all time but anyone who is stupid enough to believe his name should not be mentioned is friggin nuts

and in case someone is stupid enough to believe my doping comment, i am sure the strongest thing Elliott ever consumed was VEGEMITE

Couldn't agree more.

Ovett.... the most entertaining by a long way. most impressive memories include just turning up to Race Rono and breaking the 2mile WR unpaced. Running the fastest ever 2nd lap of an 800m (Sub 50.4) to win Moscow in 1980

The toughest too. In a fight of all the previous mentioned milers....Ovett would kick their asses.

By the way, i've noticed in some of the nike promo pics that Webb has more than a passing resemblance to Mr Ovett.

Ovett avoided Coe, so there's no way Ovett can be considered number one. A champion doesn't duck his competitors. Plus he was cocky. He didn't run in Oslo at the Bislett Games in 1979 with other top milers like Walker, Coe, Coghlan, and Steve Scott. Instead of showing up to compete, Ovett derided the entire field by saying that whoever won the race would have a "hollow" victory since Ovett wasn't there.

Of course, Coe set a world record in the race.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,948501-1,00.html

I forgot to mention that Dave Moorcroft was in the race as well. Why didn't Ovett show up to kick everyone's ass?

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/osm/story/0,,337136,00.html

Ovett avoided Coe. coe avoided ovett. blah, blah, blah. don't think cos you've read a few articles by john rhodda and neil wilson that you actually know what happened back then.

most of the avoiding of opposition was for financial reasons.

Did Ovett duck his opponents when it mattered? (Moscow? LA?)

i just thought it would be unfair to omit Vénuste Niyongabo from the conversation...

UK Runner. wrote:

Ovett.... the most entertaining by a long way. most impressive memories include just turning up to Race Rono and breaking the 2mile WR unpaced. Running the fastest ever 2nd lap of an 800m (Sub 50.4) to win Moscow in 1980

Herb Elliott ran a 50 dead 2nd lap in the 1958 British Empire Games 800m in Cardiff when defeating Brian Hewson (per Hewson's biography).

skdfkf wrote:

Jim Ryun was the most talented miler ever. He broke 4 minutes as a junior in high school, way back in the 60's when the science of running wasn't perfected, on a cinder track. With today's training, Ryun could have run much faster. Only reason Kip Keino beat him was because of the fact that the Olympic Games were at altitude.

That's a big exaggeration. The same year that Webb ran 3:53, Cornelius Chirchir (also a junior) ran 3:30. Hell, Webb is more talented than Ryun. He broke Ryun's soph record, broke 4 indoors, broke his outdoor HS record by 2sec, broke Ryun's lifetime bests at 800m, 1500m (by 3sec) and the mile (by over 4 seconds). Not to mention his vastly superior marks at two miles, 5000m and 10000m.

Webb is probably the most talented distance runner we've seen born in the US (Ryan Hall may compete for that title depending on what he does in the longer races). And I think we can all agree that there are (at least a few) more talented guys that have come through this planet than Webb. So to say that Ryun is THE most talented ever is silly.

I disagree that Webb had more talent than Ryun. What would Webb have run on a cinder track? And if no one else had broken four minutes in high school? Ryun was over the hill at 21, and it was probably due to overtraining. Ryun was arguably suffering from burnout in the 1968 Olympic Trials, as he dropped out of the 800 meters. To drop out of the 800 meters, there has to be something wrong. He was perhaps not fully recovered from mononucleosis, but that didn't seem to hamper him in the 1,500. It may be that he was suffering from a lack of concentration due to the stress of hard training without adequate recovery.

Herb Elliot is the best ever. Period. First of all, the man is a mystery. He retires at the age of 22? He more than outdid Steve Prefontaine. He set the world record. Twice. And he won the Olympic Gold. And he did not just win it. He dominated it. The only conclusion as to why he retired is that he had nothing left to accomplish. He had done everything a miler is to do. And so young. My #1 is Herb Elliot.

My #2 is Seb Coe. It seems when he was running, he set a new world record every other day. It was nuts. Plus, he has the fastest combined 1500 and 800 time. He is the definition of a superior mid-distance runner.

#3 is of course, El G. He is, of course, the World record holder and reigning Olympic Gold Medalist. His marks in the mile and 1500 are far superior to any athlete, except Bernard Lagat and Noah Ngeny. If we were discussing top 5, these two would be 4-5. No doubt.

1. Herb Elliot

2. Seb Coe

3. El G

UK Runner. wrote:

Ovett avoided Coe. coe avoided ovett. blah, blah, blah. don't think cos you've read a few articles by john rhodda and neil wilson that you actually know what happened back then.

most of the avoiding of opposition was for financial reasons.

Did Ovett duck his opponents when it mattered? (Moscow? LA?)

I have to agree with LITP on this one. Whether it was for financial reasons or not, the fact that both Coe & Ovett avoided each other (and Cram sometimes) takes them out of consideration.

El G. is a worthy nominee, as is Herb Elliott (altho shorter career counts against him). Don't overlook Peter Snell, who was trying to be dominant in 2 events. Look how he destroyed the 1500 field at Tokyo.

I think You'll find that that was 880yds and not 800m, so the 50 dead is really around 49.6 for 400m. Even more awesome!

The Herb Elliott fans have convinced me that he deserves #2. I can't get passed the fact that there's still, to this day, only one man for whom 3:30.xx was routine. Not just possible in the best of circumstances. He ran at least that fast more than 40 times on the iaaf circuit. So maybe you can argue that one or two other runners were as magnificent as El G was in their most shining moments, but the span of his reign at unprecedented speeds is what was so unique.

And his notable defeats aside, he was a fierce competitor. When Ngeny was at the top of his game, running 3:43, El Guerrouj was there taking the kick out of him from in front. Same story when Lagat came at him with a 3:26.3 in Brussels. And then he showed that he could outkick Lagat and Heshko in a tactical race in the '04 Olympics, letting them draft for the final 700 meters, then surging for the win after Lagat drew even in the final 50 meters.

Elliott's race in 1960 was brilliant, but it was an easy win compared to that one.

And let's not forget Seville '99. Even Sebastian Coe stated that it was the greatest 1,500 metres performance ever.

The one thing that counts against Elliot is that he stayed retired partly in order to keep his mystique. He wanted to come back and run at the Empire Games in 62, in his home city of Perth, but he became convinced that he couldn't beat Snell, so he didn't.

My own impression, solely based on old videos and reading contemporary reports, is that Snell was the greater runner. He saw off some amazingly good competition, partly by being faster, and partly just by overwhelming them psychologically. Jim Beatty, a tough and talented runner, was terrified of Snell.

youmightbestupid wrote:

#3 is of course, El G. He is, of course, the World record holder and reigning Olympic Gold Medalist. His marks in the mile and 1500 are far superior to any athlete, except Bernard Lagat and Noah Ngeny. If we were discussing top 5, these two would be 4-5. No doubt.

1. Herb Elliot

2. Seb Coe

3. El G

How could you rate Lagat and Ngeny ahead of Morceli?

In particular Ngeny whose time at the really elite level was quite short. Have you ever watched Morceli before 1996?