To those who have broken four minutes

good post, I hope you get some answers as I would like to see them as well!

Judging by the big discrepancy between your 800 and 5k time, I think strength is your weakness. Try incorporating some 20-30min tempo runs in your base training at about 4:55-5min pace.

Also, I would recommend going out slower in your mile races. Based on your 4:04 with that slow last lap, I would say you could definitley hit 4:01 or so. You just gotta run even or negative splits.

My experience is that going out fast when trying to break that barrier only ends up in you falling apart the last lap. The key is trusting in your kick. I would recommend you go out a little slower and stay at or slightly above 3min for 1320yds. Believe me, a couple seconds makes a huge difference.

However, I feel the best way to do it, is to just get into a high caliber race and go for the win, not worrying about splits or times. However, this does not mean lead from the gun. It means you stay in contention with the front of the pack, slightly moving up each lap, until you're in about 2nd or 3rd with a lap to go, and on the back stretch you start to pull away and bring it in home.

The main thing, though, is just don't go out too fast. Trust in your kick, and stay near the pace.

Hope this helps.

if your body can handle it, upping the mileage might help. after a good block of 90 to 100 you might have the strength to carry your pace through the finish.

Man-up.

thats all you need.

Only Men break 4 minutes. You are a man aren't you?

stud wrote:

if your body can handle it, upping the mileage might help. after a good block of 90 to 100 you might have the strength to carry your pace through the finish.

If he's not breaking it on 80mpw, 90-100mpw isn't going to be the answer.

I've never broken 4, so this post probably won't help you; my pr is 4:05. However, when I went from 1:52 to 1:49 and from 4:09 to 4:05 my senior year of college, flexibility became a huge factor in my pr's. I began incorporating drills, more light strength training, and made it a goal to become more flexible.

This might not help, hopefully it does though.

good point. i should stop running 90's because they don't really do anything and i should stick to running 80's because that means two less 5 mile morning runs.

stud wrote:

good point. i should stop running 90's because they don't really do anything and i should stick to running 80's because that means two less 5 mile morning runs.

Then you should run 150 since that will give you 10 added miles per day.

The ignorance on this board at times is astounding.

What he is saying is alot of benefit can come from those extra few miles. I would agree that you could bump up the mileage. My belief is that you know what you need to do. You have the talent to do it, its just a matter of consistancy. How bad do you want it? It will mean spending more time in the gym, extending your tempo's, and getting to sleep earlier. If you want to make a run at it, you probably have to do what you've been doing, just harder, and more consistantly. I would spend the winter focusing on mileage and strength. Your 5 shows that you are not very strong. I would try to get that as close to 14 minutes as possible and you will see that you can realize this goal.

Upping your mileage wouldn't be a bad idea if you can handle it. Although it looks like you're better at the shorter stuff anyway, you still need to improve your 800 time. They say 1:52 is the minimum speed required for sub 4, so it's possible, but having a 1:50 or even just 1:51 would help.

I second the guy who said go out slower. If you run 2:59 then 64 on your last lap it shows you could probably run 4:01 if you ran even and came through 3/4 at 3:02 or so.

I have basic speed, 50 seconds for an open 400 and ran 2.57 in a dmr in college, but always knew that strength was where I lacked. I have run 24.15 for 8k but thats my only viable time for something over 3k. My 3k pb is around 8.15 which I also know is not very good.

Why would you get any help on this board? No one on here has broken 4 minutes.

I know what he's attempting to say. But, an increase in mileage isn't the magic answer to every running question.

80 mpw is quite a bit for a miler. If he can't break 4:00 on 80mpw, he isn't going to get much, if any, benefit from doing 90 or 100. If so, then all he has to do is increase that to 120 and he'll be breaking 3:50, right?

There has to be a balance. As some others has said, the problem is strength. He's got a good mileage base. What he needs to do is focus on something else, like tempo runs or maybe more intervals. Simply increasing his miles isn't going to help him break 4:00.

As a 4:05 guy who thought he could go faster (I hate saying that as you run what you've run) I thought that in addition to good mileage what really helped me were workouts that were good hard sustained efforts (think 1200s) but also what people on here refer to as LT work ... 20-30 minutes or so on the roads of stuff that is just below redline. I think if I had done a little mopre of this earlier in my career it would have helped me.

I think Joe Rubio's MD guide is pretty close to what I would recommend if I remember it correctly (also close to the stuff in Irv Ray's book). I was just under 1:50 for the 800 and was hoping to go under 4 and it's still tough to think that I was that close and didn't! If you've run 1:52 for 800 it's not like you've maxed out in the mile, so just think it's only 1 second faster per 400 ... half a second per 200. We used to do 200's weekly in season and I got to know what 30 seconds felt like ... there's not that much difference between 29.5 and 30. Best of***.

p.s. I also don't think that you've been going out too fast necessarily. I actually think that if I'd gone out a little faster in some races my PR in the mile would be faster. This is a good time to be continuing your training, I think it would be fun to run in the Trials.

Doubt It wrote:

I know what he's attempting to say. But, an increase in mileage isn't the magic answer to every running question.

80 mpw is quite a bit for a miler. If he can't break 4:00 on 80mpw, he isn't going to get much, if any, benefit from doing 90 or 100. If so, then all he has to do is increase that to 120 and he'll be breaking 3:50, right?

There has to be a balance. As some others has said, the problem is strength. He's got a good mileage base. What he needs to do is focus on something else, like tempo runs or maybe more intervals. Simply increasing his miles isn't going to help him break 4:00.

And I know what you're attempting to say-- but the point is, you have no idea what an extra 10 or 20 miles a week will do for his strength. 20 more miles a week is a lot, and just might be the extra stimulus his body needs to maintain speed the last quarter. Maybe, in combination with longer tempo's, that mileage will do the trick.

I'm not sure what your point is anyway. We all know that there is a point of diminishing returns with mileage, but I really don't thing 80mpw is that point, especially with somebody who has a clear lack of strength. So, I'd say go with more miles and longer tempos. Why not?

PP

Why not? Because I'm sure he's already thought of more mileage. I think he's at his upper range and I bet he'll tell you that as well.

Once again, an increase in mileage ins't the answer to every running question.

A miler who can't break 4:00 on 80 mpw isn't going to break it on more miles. Simply put, because miles aren't the problem.

Chris Knight wrote:

Why would you get any help on this board? No one on here has broken 4 minutes.

not true, obviously. i personally know one for sure, and there is good evidence that plenty of others do.

try being encouraging/positive for a change. it will do wonders for you.

i certainly am not a sub-4 guy, but good luck to the op.

Proof?

I agree that the lactate threshold is the problem here, more than the mileage. Slow PRs at distances 3k and above, and dying on the last lap.