Ben Johnson interview aboot Marion, it's pretty bad...

Wow that was a depressing video. It's hard not to feel some empathy for Johnson for two reasons: It's fairly clear he lacks the sophistication to have masterminded his drug regime and second, I have no doubt most of his competitors weren't cheating as well.

He was just another scapegoat for a problem far vaster than himself.

He was hardly a "scapegoat." His eyeballs were YELLOW because his liver was working overtime to process such a massive infusion of steroids.

My guess would be that Calvin Smith was not a drug user, so...someone could run fast, cleanly, in that era.

nota wahoo wrote:

I have no doubt most of his competitors weren't cheating as well.

Wait, what? Did you mean you have no doubt that most of his competititors WERE cheating as well?

nota wahoo wrote:

It's fairly clear he lacks the sophistication to have masterminded his drug regime and second, I have no doubt most of his competitors weren't cheating as well.

First of all, thanks for the link to the OP; great clip.

I know there are guys who are ready to jump on even the remotest defence of Ben (they haven't shown up yet!)

but I can vouch for his 5 hour a day, 6 day a week training regime; I saw it. THat group trained very hard. Ben had been injured in feb/march 1988 and likely overdid it getting back. He absolutley does NOT lack the 'sophistication' but the extenuating circumstances at the time led to mistakes in the protocols. I sat beside Charlie Francis at a party and he went though a book of olympic champions; many of them americans; and told me what they were taking and how he could tell. Who knows.

Ben however is not a dumb guy like some people think he is. Looks like he got rid of his stutter which is awesome and was easier to understand than Frost! His joke about going back to bed hints at a wit that is hard to explain if you don't know him. THe story I heard is that his test in Soeul would have been covered up had some press people not heard IOC guys talking about it.

I still say, everybody clean, ben would have been the fastest; his reflexes and reaction were unmatched. THat may be the real tragedy; if he really was the fastest guy after all.

eh, i don't really have a problem with Ben anymore.

that is the way it was done, then

i just wish he would stop talking so much smack about everybody else. talk about misery loving company

Yeah. The IOC guys just stand around wondering how to cover it up. And some press were nearby as they were debating this. Cus you "heard". You have a friend in there.

And you can always "tell" just by looking. There's the proof.

Next, you'll be telling us that the IAAF asked El G to retire. Oh wait...

I basically heard the same thing and at the time, I was good enough to hear accurate information. Had Ben been from a different country, I think he'd be wearing a gold medal around his neck today. Canada is just too small to influence things at that level.

However, at the time, everyone knew he was using drugs as it was very apparent. I'm not sure everyone in the finals was using drugs but if you weren't, you were in the minority for sure. The same thing applies today except I don't think you can even find one clean guy in the finals. Yep, that includes all the guys I like and support too.

Yellowbeard wrote:

He was hardly a "scapegoat." His eyeballs were YELLOW because his liver was working overtime to process such a massive infusion of steroids.

You miss the point.

For what its worth wrote:

I basically heard the same thing and at the time, I was good enough to hear accurate information. Had Ben been from a different country, I think he'd be wearing a gold medal around his neck today. Canada is just too small to influence things at that level.

However, at the time, everyone knew he was using drugs as it was very apparent. I'm not sure everyone in the finals was using drugs but if you weren't, you were in the minority for sure. The same thing applies today except I don't think you can even find one clean guy in the finals. Yep, that includes all the guys I like and support too.

This is probably the most accurate description of the situation that you will find.

IOC and most federations were conscious of the rampant use of PED's and Ben's straw got picked as the guy most likely to set an example of. (Most obvious user with the least repercussions) If you dig deep enough you'll find the evidence.

T And F wrote:

Next, you'll be telling us that the IAAF asked El G to retire. Oh wait...

Is that a rumor that's been flying around? I honestly hadn't heard that one ...

Oh really? Well, why don't you explain to us poor saps just what IS the point?

Mandingo wrote:

THe story I heard is that his test in Soeul would have been covered up had some press people not heard IOC guys talking about it.

.

For what its worth wrote:

I basically heard the same thing and at the time, I was good enough to hear accurate information. Had Ben been from a different country, I think he'd be wearing a gold medal around his neck today. Canada is just too small to influence things at that level.

ray wrote:

This is probably the most accurate description of the situation that you will find.

IOC and most federations were conscious of the rampant use of PED's and Ben's straw got picked as the guy most likely to set an example of. If you dig deep enough you'll find the evidence.

shouldn't you guys be over on the "when will we find out the truth about 9/11?" thread?

Oh, and by the way, those (like Mandingo) saying that Ben's positive test would have been "covered up" if the IOC hadn't been overheard talking about it, I guess you don't know Charlie and Ben as well you as say, because you don't even have THEIR story down right. According to them, Ben wasn't even taking the particular drug he got busted for. According to them there was no real positive test to cover up, but that Ben was sabotaged from the get go. The IOC planted the drugs. Or was it Carl Lewis' coach ?

Whatever, you guys need to get over it. Ben probably took more steroids than any athlete in history. THERE is your explanation for his long training days Mandingo. "tragedy" my ass. Carl Lewis was on cold medication, and Ben was on 15 different types of steroids you can't pronounce. You Canadians and other Ben defenders are funny.

Ben Johnson was a big, bloated, freak of a cheat, who got his drug-fueled ass finally busted. And it was one of the sweetest days in track and field history.

that makes sense;

I totally agree that Ben Johnson was taking steroids and deserved to get caught and lose his medals. Absolutely.

In any other place it would be a case of 'who cares' but on a running message board there is interest in looking a bit deeper into issues. I'm usually the guy shooting down conspiracy theories as too hard to pull off. I was only trying to add a little by pointing out that Ben would be at the track when I went there around noon at worked out steady until I went back after class at the end of the day. THere was a belief in his group (CHarlie etc.) that all the top sprinters were juiced. There is also some evidence, more coming out now, of cover ups. I totally understand the "he was juiced, he deserved to go down" mentality. ANd trust me, his harshest critics are Canadians who feel let down and embarassed by his actions. I am in the minority by trying to explain but not back up what he did.

Mandingo wrote:

I am in the minority by trying to explain but not back up what he did.

Just curious, but if you are ever pulled over for speeding, have you tried to tell the cop that "everybody else is speeding" or that "you let that hot chick off with just a warning"?

If you have, what was the response? If you haven't, would you expect those lines to work?

Just because others may have been also breaking the rules but not getting caught does not change the fact you (or Ben) did get caught and should expect the mandated penalty.

As for the 6 hours of training, isn't that the point of steroids? That they allow you to recover faster and therefore handle greater training loads?

With respect to the suggested storyline of some reporter overhearing IOC dudes talking about the positive test, I presume this reporter did his/her job and actually wrote an article about this event? Surely that would be a big scoop in amongst all the other noise about the positive result.

nota wahoo wrote:

Wow that was a depressing video. It's hard not to feel some empathy for Johnson for two reasons: It's fairly clear he lacks the sophistication to have masterminded his drug regime and second, I have no doubt most of his competitors weren't cheating as well.

He was just another scapegoat for a problem far vaster than himself.

Is "vaster" a word? I need to dig out my English usage book from college. Wouldn't it be better to say "far more vast"?

Vaster is not a word. There is however the archaic vasty mainly used in poetry which has the same meaning. The comparative of vasty is vastier with the superlative vastiest. You could also use vastitude to describe the condition or quality of being vast or a vast space, expanse etc.

Can someone please translate Ben's portion of this interview into English?

exactly. i'm in no way excusing him. it's just time to move on. he did it, paid the price. let the man live his life and appreciate that he was far from the only one who took roids then (or now).

second, for all the folks breaking down the grammar on a message board post - do you really think anyone gives a sh*t about grammar on letsrun? i would think most spend as much time crafting a post here as they do working on an instant message - seconds. if you miss that you miss the point, too...

not a wahoo wrote:

i would think most spend as much time crafting a post here as they do working on an instant message - seconds. if you miss that you miss the point, too...

Just curious, but if someone isn't bothered to put any effort into 'crafting a post', then why should anyone else put any effort into trying to understand their side of the issue?

Like most things in life, you get out of it what you put into it.