Yep.
Yep.
That's a good article. I know a guy who has told a couple of races that they are certified (by him), and he just made up some random number.
biggest nerds ever? Perhaps.
Thank you.
Nerd and proud of it!!
I've certified courses and there is a lot of paperwork. Filling it out correctly and lying about it would be a bigger pain than doing it correctly.
I know the people who invented that thing.
Great piece -- that's unfamiliar stuff even to some hardcore runners!
David Katz wrote:
Thank you.
Nerd and proud of it!!
David, I believe some time ago we elected you Chief Nerd. Nice pic tho and detailed story. Who was the unidentified measurer? Who paid for Hugh to come to the States? I woulda been there for a hamburger & beer...and a few dollars gas money.
scotth wrote:
David Katz wrote:Thank you.
Nerd and proud of it!!
David, I believe some time ago we elected you Chief Nerd. Nice pic tho and detailed story. Who was the unidentified measurer? Who paid for Hugh to come to the States? I woulda been there for a hamburger & beer...and a few dollars gas money.
Scott, that was me!
Lots of fun measuring w/ Hugh, a great marathoner back in the 80s who has continued to give back to the sport ever since. Hell of a measurer, too.
I think every elite should tag along on at least one measurement - it's always amazed me watching from the press truck at many races how many of them have no concept of what running the tangents or shortest possible route mean.
Can't resist....
Is that a course measuring night watch, why would a course measurer look at a watch while measuring?
Or was that a set up photo for the NYTimes
Ok, 15 minutes of fame are over, go back to being a Math teacher....lol
Jim G. and I have been working on this course for months. He had the bad luck of not being there the one nite that the NY Times reporter showed up.
Victah - no, it wasn't a photo set up! I take my nerd status to a new level - I have always worn a calculator watch. With all of my giant digital display clocks, chip timing mats, etc, it is my most important piece of equipment. I don't go an hour without using it! But I have moved on - I did get rid of my pencil protector (but my reflective vest does have one!).
PS - Jones is the best measurer on the Planet!
Katy Lied wrote:
I know a guy who has told a couple of races that they are certified (by him), and he just made up some random number.
runn wrote:
I've certified courses and there is a lot of paperwork. Filling it out correctly and lying about it would be a bigger pain than doing it correctly.
I think he meant the guy didn't do anything and just made up a random certification number that he gave to the race director.
But what he actually knows is a guy who TOLD him that he told "a couple of races" that they are certified...
It's possible a race director paid money without ever seeing a certificate, and that nobody who ran the race checked the USATF website to see the map, and that the state certifier never heard anything about this race claiming it was certified, but I don't think all that's likely.
My only question is....
How much beer did he drink on da plane?
what's with the 400 meter calibration course? Who laid it out, and how?
Everything depends on the calibration course, and I've always been told that it should be at least 1 km, should be laid out by a professional, etc. etc.
standard error wrote:
what's with the 400 meter calibration course? Who laid it out, and how?
Everything depends on the calibration course, and I've always been told that it should be at least 1 km, should be laid out by a professional, etc. etc.
The requirement is that a cal course be a minimum of 300m. Years ago, the minimum was 800m but it was determined that 300 did not reduce accuracy, and it's a lot easier and quicker to lay out on site (try finding a straight half mile in most parts of New England).
Anyone can lay out a cal course, providing they follow the instructions in the course measurement manual, just as anyone can measure a course for certification by doing that as well. It is true that with more experience, a measurer becomes more accurate (generally after his/her third or fourth course) so that is why high profile events will get an experienced measurer to do the job. I would wager there are few if any measurers on the planet better than Hugh Jones - he's done most of the recent Olympic & WC road courses. It was his idea to use 400 rather than 300 for the NY cal course (incidentally, if anyone wants to run straight, flat 400m repeats, the course is on the straight section of East Drive in Central Park, near the Engineers Gate at 90th St. - the ends are marked by white tape and a small nail).
What is the purpose of the cal course and how is it used?
Also, how did some of you guys end up as course cert guys?
Second ? first: anybody can end up as a course cert guy/gal. Anybody, that is, who reads thru the course certification manual & follows the procedures outlined. It involves math, a bike, a Jones counter and a very good sense where the shortest line is around a course. That & the willingness to deal w/all traffic will throw at you.
The Jones counter mounted on the front hub simply counts as you ride. For me it counts over 15,000 times per mile. To determine how many counts I'd need for a mile on my next course, I go to a cal course and ride back/forth 4 times and use the average # as my cal constant. Most recently that was 2877 for my 1000' cal course. Then I multiply by 5.28 then add .1% (short course prevention factor) and come up w/15205.75. The SCPF is added to ensure the course would be found to be at least the advertised distance on a validation ride (performed if a record is set).
scotth, that makes sense. Thanks.
What's important, and the thing all the GPS-wearing geeks (as opposed to us measurement geeks) don't realize is that the constant can change from day to day, or even w/in the day, based on temperature, as your tire expands and contracts. That's why we're required to calibrate right before and after doing the actual measurement.
Shouldn't the SCPF depend on the standard deviation of your calibration measurements? It seems a bit arbitary to use .1%.
so is it safe to say that you are always going to run a little (very little, i realize) farther on a certified course assuming you are not going to be able to take that perfect line and with a .1% added?