Geb - All East African athletes are naturally gifted, but their training is nothing special.

MethodMan wrote:

In the quote of the day article from the Indy Star, Geb was quoted as saying "All East African athletes are naturally gifted, but their training is nothing special."

Do we still have to pretend that there is no physiological difference between the races, or is it okay to admit there may be some genetic difference now that Geb said it?

Actually if youve had an in depth conversation with Kenyans with connections to Elite athletes you would see that their training is actually pretty unique and special. I think Renato Canova would also have to disagree with Geb's quote.

East Africans will always dominate. Talent, training... it doesn't matter. We aren't catching up and we won't for decades.

Dont Listen To Anybody But Me wrote:

Actually if youve had an in depth conversation with Kenyans with connections to Elite athletes you would see that their training is actually pretty unique and special. I think Renato Canova would also have to disagree with Geb's quote.

So are you saying that East African training alone deserves credit for Ethiopian and Kenyan dominance of distance events? The way I see it, you've got four things that combine to make an athlete great:

natural talent

desire

PED's

training

I don't think desire and training alone can account for East African dominance, so you're left with two to pick from. I don't think PED's can account for *all* of East African dominance, which leads me to the same conclusion as Geb.

I don't see how anyone could say there is no inherent physiological difference between East Africans and the rest of the world.

MethodMan wrote:

Dont Listen To Anybody But Me wrote:

Actually if youve had an in depth conversation with Kenyans with connections to Elite athletes you would see that their training is actually pretty unique and special. I think Renato Canova would also have to disagree with Geb's quote.

So are you saying that East African training alone deserves credit for Ethiopian and Kenyan dominance of distance events? The way I see it, you've got four things that combine to make an athlete great:

natural talent

desire

PED's

training

I don't think desire and training alone can account for East African dominance, so you're left with two to pick from. I don't think PED's can account for *all* of East African dominance, which leads me to the same conclusion as Geb.

I don't see how anyone could say there is no inherent physiological difference between East Africans and the rest of the world.

So do you always try to maniuplate the meaning of people's responses? I made a clear response to the posters comment that their training is unique contrary to his belief on that the fact that "it isnt anything special". Thats all nothing more nothing less. Now go eat a dick.

Gifted is a word that was created because we couldnt and cant to some degree why some people are smarter faster stronger than others. There is no doubt that east africans are more "gifted." That only means their body types are thinner, their muscles are constituted differently and other things we havent discovered yet.

Dont Listen To Anybody But Me wrote:

So do you always try to maniuplate the meaning of people's responses? I made a clear response to the posters comment that their training is unique contrary to his belief on that the fact that "it isnt anything special". Thats all nothing more nothing less. Now go eat a dick.

Ouch. Someone needs to learn how to handle an opinion other than his own.

One other factor needs to be accounted for when trying to understand East African distance running dominance.

Natural talent,desire, PED's (and the agents that provide them), and training are all very important, but you left out culture. I don't mean the cultures of the individual ethnic groups, I'm referring to the running culture that is prevalent in these areas. Many of the successful East Africans got into running at a young age, because they A) thought it was the only way out of poverty B) had running heros like Paul Tergat and Geb to look up to or C) wanted to be involved in the most popular sport in their area (although football/soccer is still pretty popular in East Africa). It is because of this cultural phenomenon that so many young talented athletes take up running seriously in East Africa whereas in the the U.S. and many places in Europe running is a second tier sport filled with kids who quit the soccer team or who were trying to get in shape for basketball. Many of the best athletes in the U.S. never try running serious (almost none try distance running). Who knows what Allen Iverson could have run in the 1500 or what Santana Moss could have run in the 800. The U.S. does not seek out and support young distance running talent the way it does with football, basketball, and baseball. Are Canadians just more "gifted" hockey players? Are Eastern Europeans more "gifted" tennis players?

Chex - fantastic post - athletes are not automatons (even the ones on PED's), and culture plays a large role in incenting people to focus on certain sports or activities - and the most talented and dedicated among them will end up shining.

I note that people are mentioning body weight, body type, etc., but this too relates to culture. Kenya and and Ethiopia still experience deep poverty and is not a place that is going to sprout legions of 200 pound teens stuffing Big Macs - a good thing at that, eh?

And I am not sure that any statement as to whether they train is dispositive of anything. If they train harder, well, its likely because they are capable of doing so - because they are for a whole host of reasons superior athletes (culture among them).

I prefer to just to appreciate the athletic prowess of the East Africans, and for the sake of the sport, irrespective of the national origin of the athletes, the drug problem is somehow greatly mitigated.