is a 56 sec 400m too slow for a 4 min mile?

I cant sprint for shit but have managed a 1:56.9 800 and 3:57 1500 and I dont specialise in these events. My 400 flat out race pace has been timed at 56.5 in a 4x400 relay. I really stuggle over a one off 400 against my training partners can never go with them they leave me almost straight away. Put me in a session of say 8-12 400 1 min rec and I'm always upfront. 3-10km I have run reasonably well 8:28,14:39,30:35 with limited sprinting ability.

I cant see anyone running a fast mile time without very good 400 pace.

Someone with a strength background could probably go sub 4 off 53/54 speed. What's more important is if you're able to run relaxed at 59 second quarter pace, though with a 56 second 400m pr that doesn't seem feasible.

You can run 400 meters in 56.5 secs. And you can run 800 meters at 58.45 secs per lap.

You obviously have a lot of endurance, since your 10k is significantly better than your 5k. (A 30:35 10k is equivalent to 14:29 under IAAF scoring tables.) So it's not surprising that you wouldn't slow too much by adding another lap to a 400 meters. But still, slowing only two seconds per lap from 400 to 800 seems unusual, even for a strong endurance runner like you.

Does anyone else have this type of profile?

Dave Bedford had top end speed of about 56-57 seconds and ran the first mile of the Munich 10k in 4:10. I also heard (although I cannot confirm) that Murray Halberg, one of Lydiard's runners, had 58 second quarter speed and ran a 4:08 mile, alos won olympic gold in the 5k. That said these guys were aerobic monsters and focused on longer events than the mile. With 56 second 400 speed you will never become a great miler but if you love running and have th will and discipline to train hard for a long period of time there's no reason why you can't become a great 5k, 10k or marathon runner. Look at a guy like Tom McArdle (Dartmouth runner a few years back). His best mile was something like a 4:13 but he still broke 28:20 in the 10k.

Dave Bedford's mile PR was about 4:07. Yet he ran 5k in 13:17. He was indeed an endurance monster.

I once ran a :54 in practice. I estimate in a race I could have run 51-52 in a 400 m race. My best ever mile was 4:14 and my best 1500 was 3:53. If I trained more specifically for the mile, I may have gotten down somewhere between 4:05-4:10, but I do not see myself as EVER being a sub 4 miler.

I can't imagine anyone breaking 4:00 that can't run AT LEAST 53.0. More realistic is probably 52.0-52.5 as the minimum.

ok for me. 51.6 in the open 400 and i cant even break 2. so how do u expect someone to break 4. granted i only ran the mile once in teh last 3 years im only at 4:52

Murray Halberg ran a 3:57 for 4th behind Herb Elliot's 3:54.5 wr if memory serves me right.

I ran a 55 second 400m in highschool race. My mile PR in highschool was 4:21. I found early on that I was not given any gift what so ever in the form of speed.

Guys that I was racing in highschool that ran about 4:20 like me, would later in the meets run a 51-52 second 400.

I found that I would have to balance my lack of speed with 100+ mile/week over the summers.

herche, do what I did, and what all slow people should do:

run the 5000, 10000, and beyond in distance.

It worked well enough for me in college getting under 30.

56.9 400m translated into 2:01 flat 800m and 4:04 1500m for me.

A 56 second 400 might mean if sub 4 1500m if the person had good`endurance. A 4 minute mile would be highly unlikely.

pretty sure bob kennedy did it

I've looked at several guys and have found that 400m time plus 5 doubled is usually quite accuarte at predicting 800m time. It's been accurate for 400/800 types and 800/mile types, and even for distance based guys. Some are going to be below or above, but it's pretty accurate most of the time. I've also read that a good predictor of 1500m time is your 800m doubled. This will have more of a fluctuation from runner to runner than the method used to get from 400-800, but it's usually in the ballpark.

Using the two methods to get from 400-mile, assuming a 3:43 1500 = 4:00 mile, you have this:

3:43/2 = 1:51.5... ans/2 = 55.75... ans-5 = 50.75.

As you can see, on average, a 4:00 miler should be able to run between 50.5 and 51.0. Some guys can run 47 and 1:48 and can only manage low 4s, and some endurance guys can probably only run 53 and 1:53 yet can run close to 4:00 as well, but it is highly unlikely that anyone could break 4:00 with 56 quarter speed.

OK if a runner can run a 56 in a self-made timetrial but runs a 25 first 200 and dies and runs the second 200 in 31 seconds what do you think they are capable of if they ran a little smarter? 53?

I kid on my team in college ran 55, 1:55, and 4:06 (for the mile) those were all out efforts in races. (55 was the only race of the day same with the 800 and the mile)

soren wrote:

Dave Bedford had top end speed of about 56-57 seconds and ran the first mile of the Munich 10k in 4:10. I also heard (although I cannot confirm) that Murray Halberg, one of Lydiard's runners, had 58 second quarter speed and ran a 4:08 mile, alos won olympic gold in the 5k. That said these guys were aerobic monsters and focused on longer events than the mile. With 56 second 400 speed you will never become a great miler but if you love running and have th will and discipline to train hard for a long period of time there's no reason why you can't become a great 5k, 10k or marathon runner. Look at a guy like Tom McArdle (Dartmouth runner a few years back). His best mile was something like a 4:13 but he still broke 28:20 in the 10k.

Dave Bedford was doing 200 mpw prior to Munich 1972..yeah why he went out so hard in that 10000 m? With his endurance he could still could have mopped up the track with Viren if he had laid back for the first 2 miles.

Fat Boy wrote:

You're right. The formula I like to use is "add 5 secs to quarter time and double for half mile time." Add ten secs to quarter time and four fold it for mile time."

Not true, I ran a 56, and in the same season I ran 1:59. I also ran 4:19.

Fat Boy wrote:

You're right. The formula I like to use is "add 5 secs to quarter time and double for half mile time." Add ten secs to quarter time and four fold it for mile time."

That works our identical to my times for 400, 800, mile

54.5 400m

1:55 800m

3:47 1500m (~4:04 mile)

I am of course more of a distance runner...