Bupa Manchester 10k

mellor question wrote:

don't want to upset anyone but is Jonny Mellor over racing? Just seems that he is racing almost every weekend without a real plan. Would like to see him take a few weeks of training/resting then hit a quality 5k- I just don't want to see him fried by June as he is a great talent

I was speaking with Mellors coach a week last friday after Mellor won the Christleton 5k road race. He ran well at the 5k, even though I thought he would have gone a little quicker on the night, but weather was very wet. His coach told me he was doing the Manchester 10k but then focusing on the track. Maybe they trained through it? Maybe he has\raced too much, we can all be gulity of that, but I am sure we have not seen the best of young Mellor yet. Watch this space.

Very impressed with Ian Hudspith time today. Well done.

This course is a bit of a joke isn't it? Why do people never reproduce these times throughout the year? Be interesting to see how close the domestic athletes get to these times over the next few months on the track and road.

I always assumed the times were due to it being a flat course with hardly any corners but interestingly someone earlier in the thread reckons its because its possible to cut corners.

Andi Jones could you shed any light on this and if you've got time could you give a bit more of a report on how the race panned out between the Brits? On watching the coverage I noticed that Si Deakin was pertinent to the race in the first 3k yet he didnt get one mention. It looks like Dan Robinson got quite a poor start as he wasn't up in the group with Hudspith, Ward and Deakin even though the first 2k were relatively slow. Did Russell come through the field late as I didnt pick him up at all?

Just watched the highlights on BBC 2 Kogo's running style reminds me of how Daniel Komen used to run. Bit surprised Tadesse got beat but he looked like he was working hard the last few kilometres nearly caught him, can't see Kogo getting anywhere near Kenny B on the track at 10km though dont think he has the turn of speed Bekele has. Cram was suggesting that he will be a force to be reckoned with come Osaka. Thought Farah would have broken 28 mins for sure still ran a PB. Some good low 29 min runs from a few brits namely Ward, Webb, Deakin and Ford. Think the coverage should show the lead brits but it never does either at London, GNR or here.

Also been watching race highlights first 1km in 2:59 was very slow considering who was running. Kogo would have surely run close to Gebs WR of 27:02?!? if he had started quicker and run the shortest line. Good to see lots of good runs by the top domestic guys in and good to see Jo Pavey getting a home win.

Boddingtons wrote:

Andi Jones could you shed any light on this and if you've got time could you give a bit more of a report on how the race panned out between the Brits?

Can't really add much more to what you just watched on the TV. At the time of the race I was plodding round the Pennine Way in knee deep peat bogs. Cracking day for it, but kept well away from Manchester as I presumed I wouldn't get to see much of the action on foot. Just watched it on TV. The British race was very good. Not looking too much at the lead Brt, Mo Farah, who ran a very impressive race to finish 3rd in 28.07, who is clearly by far the lead British runner and is obviously looking at running very fast times this year, but the next British runners ran very well. A PB by Alty's Jason Ward, 29.07 and an exceptional run by Hudspith. Not sure what his PB is, but unless I have been readng the wrong athletics magazines I hadn't noticed him running these times this year. Best time I can recall recently is 29.49 at Trafford 10k last year. Maybe Dan was still recovering from the marathon, I know I am 'struggling' with running anything faster than marathon pace at the moment which was why I decided very early this week not to do the race. Deakin ran real well and I am sure that will be a PB. Webb ran an awesome time, but again I don't have figures at hand to compare this to. All in all a very good day for British runners. It's just a shame some people see it right to comment on the course length on the afternoon of the race. I am sure a race of this size will have measured, remeasured and remeasured the course taking nto account any sweeping corners.

Some solid runs by the top Brits. However, it shows what a sorry state Brit distance running is in when our top distance guys can only just beat a triathlete.

If Don is typical of any other top triathlete, he will not be running a massive amount of miles - 40-50 a week?. However, all of the swimming and biking that he does will give him great aerobic capacity.

To have the same aerobic abilities as Don, our top distance runners need to be doing a lot more aerobic work ie more milage.

hudspith has run mid 28s in the past i think, a few years ago he ran 28.40ish at the aaas 10k

TV coverage showed the men's 1k split at 2.59 and 2k split at 5.23 so we can surely assume that one of them was wrong, 2.24 split clearly didn't happen.

I agree with A.J it seems a bit daft to question the course in a race of this level with various records being chased - perhaps the point is that over 10k, stuff like bends, little drops and climbs, and definitely wind, make a difference and when everything is just right, which may happen rarely, then the runners get good times. There's nothing 'suspect' about the results of Kogo, Tadesse, Farah and Pavey in my view.

The point about how Tim Don's result reflects UK men's endurance standards is truly helpful and constructive. It's hypothetical, but if Tim Don had stayed just a runner it's doubtful he'd have ever got into the training situation that his success at Tri has enabled him to develop.

I was involved in the remesurement of a long standing road race recently and they have actually changed the way road races in the UK are measured. It used to always be a metre from the kerb but in the last year or two the new official method of measurement is to measure the shortest possible route. For the race I was involved in this was rather silly as it is impossible to take the shortest route as the roads are not closed to traffic and athletes are advised to stay on the left hand side of the road!

As for the Manchester race, the course used today was a new one and as such will have had to have undergone the new method of measurement. As somebody rightly said it will have been measured and remeasured so well done to all who got PBs.

My understanding, and I could be wrong about this, is that the 'correct' way to measure the course is to measure the shortest route, keeping a metre away from the curbs. If thats the case, based on having raced the course a few times, it's easily posible to run shorter than 10k as there are a number of corners where you can cut across the pavements, as well as running within the metre from the curb. How much of a difference that makes is hard to say, though I wouldn't have thought it would affect results all that much - maybe someone could get a Jones counter out and measure it in the interests of science?

RE Tim Don - his results are what I would expect based on his awesome aerobic capacity. My experiences with injuries restricting my running mileage and forcing me to do a lot of aerobic work on bikes or cross trainers supports the idea that 40 or 50 miles a week is enough to train your body to run and that anything on top of that is largely just extra aerobic training which could be done more effectively in other ways.

I can't imagine the Don has had anything like what most runners of a similar ability would consider an easy week in terms of hours trained either.

apols Triman for being over sarcy.

The world's v best triathletes are by and large going to be a good national level at each of the 3 events I think, or they wouldn't be world clas at tri. Would TD just about make National 1500m final if he went for that in isolation, as an eg? So it' s more about how bloody good the tri folk are at 3 events rather than bemoaning that not many domestic specialists beat them at each discipline.

Robert Russell was at the front of the second chasing group in the early stages, I presume he was close to Dan Robinson for a lot of the race. This was a great performance for Russell, I believe this is his first time under 30 minutes...

No need to apologise. My post was not meant to be overly cricital at our distance guys. As I said, there were some solid performances.

However, Don's performance shows not only what a good athlete he is but surely indicates how much general aerobic work he must be doing with his bike and swim training (which enables him to run such a 10km time off not a great deal of running)

Now I'm not advocating all our distance guys do less running and do a load of swimming and cycling. The point is the massive amount of aerobic work required to run a top level 10km.

I'm not sure that all of our most talented distance guys, or perhaps more importantly their coaches, appreciate how much basic aerobic conditioning is required for them to reach their full potential.

Ok - I ran 29:19 for 16th. PB by miles which is good but I'm actually a bit disappointed with myself as I think being a bit aggressive early cost me 10 or 20 secs later. But you live and learn and I won't be complaining too much. I'm still coming to terms with running at this level and once I learn not to follow the Africans then I'll be OK!!

- comments on other stuff - Webb, yes a PB. V good run from him - said he was pleased to finally get a reward for the work he's put in over the last few months.

- Huspith - superb performance - he waited back in the pack and with his experience (and even, at his age, a fair turn of speed) I thought he'd finish twds the front of the group. He ran pretty well at the nat xc, a half marathon somewhere and both 12 stages so it isn't much of a surprise.

- course - if its measured as 10k then its 10k. I can only think of one place where people were on the pavement and if the course was measured as above then its not a problem. Lots of people ran fast today - FACT - and it would be nice if the naysayers would get off our backs for a change. Credit where its due eh? I'm sick of people questioning every decent performance (downhill course, badly measured, cutting corners etc. etc.)

Anyway, I for one will be trying to translate it into a decent track season (would liked to have been in Loughborough as well - looks a quality 3000) so please watch this space.

yes good run simon, you looked very good over the first half. i was pleased to get another pb today but was also a little un happy as thought i would go faster, but did not feel 100%, theres always another day. Now time to focus on a 10k at 5500 feet.

...and the heat and the jetlag!!!! 27C in Boulder at the moment

thats nothing compared to 38 and 85% humidity i had to cope with in mombassa

I'm a puff though