Penn State vs Coatesville HS DMR

Joe Pa must go!

Coatesville is probably the best team ever in PA, but come on, this is Penn State.

They should be able to crack the top 25 every year with PA talent alone. I am from PA and went to a PA school to run, and neither me nor any of my teammates even looked at PSU, and that's sad.

The facilities and places to train in state college are awesome.

That's terrible really. I mean maybe they didn't have an A team in or something, but really PSU distance is very weak.

Think about it - PSU is working with all of Harry's "recruits" from the last few years. You can't make a mountain out of a mole hill. It takes a year or two to get things going. I think I saw where PSU signed the top miler in the country from Ohio and a stud 800 kid from New York.

Borchers, Sam - Yellow Springs HS, Yellow Springs, OH - distance

Ferry, Chris - West Chester Henderson, PA - mid distance

Williams, Lionel - St. Peters HS, Staten Island, NY - mid distance

those are solid recruits, but more is needed

very solid......now they have to make them something

Central High 1988 wrote:

Is the reason for the decline mostly due to B.A.S. and her (lack of) coaching skills?

I can't speak to the woman's coaching skill or lack thereof. However, the program had been going down for some years, before Harry Groves left.

Such a decline can really be an insidious thing. It's easy to tell yourself that it's temporary--"just a down year (or two)"--or that this particular bunch of kids has a bad attitude (and they will--being losers on a once-competitive program will have that effect). You know that you're still a good coach, though you don't seem to get as many good kids as you used to--maybe because of scholarship cuts or whatever.

I consider Harry Groves one of the most underappreciated distance and middle-distance coaches of the last half-century, easily ranking with someone like Dellinger. I know that his guys from "the good days" must be baffled and chagrined at the decline in PSU's fortunes, and that they can't believe Harry was the problem. Well, *their* Harry wasn't; but the Harry of his last few years was.

Bottom line: If the program goes down while you're in charge--particularly if you've been in charge for at least a few years--then you, the head coach, are the reason why.

Though I was never the coach that Harry Groves was in his heyday--never close--I too had teams that stopped improving, then started going the other way. I feel bad that it took me five years to recognize it and resign--my athletes paid the price.

When was PSU XC last good? 1994?

I am a D-1 runner who left PA for greener pastures elsewhere, and I must say, It's no mystery why Penn State struggles. I was a multiple time state medalist in xc and track, a 4:20/9:20 guy with sub 16 xc credentials too, and I never once got a letter from PSU, or Pitt or Duquesne for that matter. I was raised a nittany lion fan and was dissapointed that they expressed no interest in me. While I didn't expect a scholarship or anything crazy, a letter and perhaps an offer to visit campus and meet the team would have gone a LONG way to sparking my interest. I was recruited by other big ten programs (Indiana, Ohio State) and other PA schools (Penn, La Salle, Edinboro, Lock Haven) but those other PA programs never bothered.

I'm not saying I would have scored tons of points and been an All-American or anything, but when in-state guys like me never get recruited, it's no wonder the team isn't any good. I would EASILY be in Penn State's top 5 in xc now (I'm a junior) and could threaten to score this weekend at Big Ten's.

PSU does a decent job of landing a stud now and then (Lincoln, Mazzaco, Cavanaugh) but doesn't seem to bring in any sort of supporting cast, which is vital in xc and helpful in track.

PA HS Runner wrote:

I was a multiple time state medalist in xc and track, a 4:20/9:20 guy with sub 16 xc credentials too, and I never once got a letter from PSU, or Pitt or Duquesne for that matter.

I never did either. What makes you so special?

malmo wrote:

I never did either.

That's his whole point.

Me neither. In past times, Penn St. didn't need to recruit too much because it was a great place to run, great team and pretty good (not great) school. But times change and Harry didn't. Other schools picked-up the 4:20/9:30 type kids and PSU was not so deep anymore. They stopped getting the 9:15 "invited" walk-ons. I still think Harry was a great coach, but he didn't change with the times and didn't have the support staff JoePa had to carry the ball for him while he "works" from home.

malmo wrote:

PA HS Runner wrote:

I was a multiple time state medalist in xc and track, a 4:20/9:20 guy with sub 16 xc credentials too, and I never once got a letter from PSU, or Pitt or Duquesne for that matter.

I never did either. What makes you so special?

what time did psu and coatseville run? What meet?

Friday April 27th 2007 Penn Relays:

Event #146 College Mens Distance Medley Relay

7. Penn State 10:05.92

Event #155 High School Boys Distance Medley COA

1. Coatesville (PA) 10:08.51

OK, so more like 2.5 seconds ahead instead of 3.