Lebron not on first team?

Lebron half-assed most of the season.

Let's count all the ways the430miler is wrong, shall we?

the430miler wrote:

1. Steve Nash already holds the all-time nba reacord for assists.

WRONG: John Stockton, Nash is 28th.

Even in APG, Nash is 13th.

5. he holds the all-time nba best percentage for free-throws.

WRONG: he's 3rd behind Mark Price and Rick Barry.

6. last but not least, he is a REAL american.

WRONG: he's f*cking CANADIAN you idiot.

actually wrote:

greatest what of all time?! are you serious? what has he won? that's like calling steve holman the greatest american miler of all time.

1) I said he's not there yet.

2) Steve Holman wasn't anywhere near as good in his sport as Steve Nash is in his. Almost all basketball experts say that Steve Nash has an ability to pass the ball not just to the open man but to the open man so that he's immediately in a shooting position in a way that no other player in the history of the game has even come close to. His scoring efficiency too is insane.

Unfortunately in team sports, rings seem to be the defining thing, and that has always seemed odd to me. Gotta have other players on your team to win championships. Ernie Banks was great. He never won a World Series.

Did Larry Bird Lead the Celtics to championships? Not sure. He had McHale and Ainge and DJ and Robert Parrish and others who were excellent players. Did Magic lead his Lakers teams? Not sure. Little guy named Kareem Abdul Jabar kind of seemed like he helped a bit.

Who does Nash have on his team? Some decent players, but no one to the level of the other players on Bird's and Magic's championship teams. So, the fact he has no ring yet seems unfair.

He's deserving of a third straight MVP award. Too bad that Dirk will get it.

FWIW, Duncan is certainly not the player you'd want to pick "playground" style. That'd be Kobe, as much as I hate to admit it. Sure, playing with him wouldn't be much fun, but he can score at will and also can D up.

Back to the original post, though - when I noticed LeBron on the 2nd team and his 2nd team mates, it made me wonder, who do you think would win if the all-nba 1st team and all-nba 2nd team went head to head?

1st team:

Nash / Kobe / Stoudemire / Nowitzki / Duncan

2nd team:

LeBron / Arenas / McGrady / Bosh / Yao

Second team would be hurt by the lack of a point guard, but I think you'd have a pretty good match-up on your hands if they squared off.

Stoudemire is the newbie that got moved up to push Lebron down to the second team. I agree that might be a dubious decision.

As for Nash, yeah, he's certainly in the all-time top 50 but probably not the top ten. I still rate Magic Johnson, who could have scored more if his team needed that, as #1. There is nothing the guy could not do. I'll give Jordan second place.

I am a huge Nash fan and I wouldn't even put him at the top of the all-time PG spot. He can't light a match to Stockton, Oscar Robertson, or Magic. I do think he is in the top 50 all-time and he has proven his value to his team. Since he arrived in Phoenix the regular players scoring averages have shot up. He is the best in the league now at what he does. As for the comment about if you are over 6'8" you have no talent... Get real. So what youa re saying is that Shawn Bradley and Tim Duncan have the same amount of talent? Hmmm... I guess I can see where you are coming from.

flotter

the430miler wrote:

Nash is the best in the nba for several reasons.

6. last but not least, he is a REAL american.

now im pretty sure that you know he's not an american, but you're just saying this because that's what you do. Nash is Canadian. figured I'd just clear that up.

Last time I checked Canada was part of America

Nash was actually born in Johannesburg, South Africa

Yao made the second team and he didn't even play half the season.

my top 5:

jordan

magic

bird

oscar

wilt

would be hard to put nash over the following yet:

malone (karl)

stockton

erving

olajuwon

robinson

cousy

russell

baylor

not to mention will his career be better than:

kobe, garnett, lebron, duncan?

I know that certain trailblazing pioneer type players deserve credit for being there first, but by any other measure, Cousy does not merit such a high rating. He was no shooter at all, for one thing. I'd rate Jerry West way ahead of him.

it's easy to discount cousy's stats but in those days fg %'s were crazy and assists were not as freely assigned as in the magic/bird years. considering the low 40's would get you in the top-5, he wasn't that bad a shooter.

For point guards, Nash will never even compare to John Stockton. The dude has the all time assists record by about 5000, he AVERAGED 15 assits in a season! When Nash has 15 assists it's a great game for him. Stockton holds the all time record in steals as well. Nash is very good but in terms of point guards he will never be better than John Stockton. the430miler, you are an idiot.

Nash is great, and stats aren't the only thing to look at. Nash could easily put up 25+ points a game, but he is the only actual true PG in the league - he'd rather pass before taking a shot. His unselfish play rubs off on the rest of his team, and they play the greatest team ball in the NBA, not to mention they are the funnest to watch.

I mean think about it, Stoudamire was alright but didn't come to his fullness till Nash came along, same with Diaw, Joe Johnson, Barbosa, and Marion was already good before but still...

Kobe is good but he can only make his team win if he does it all himself, he doesn't help his team out any other way than scoring.

reading number 3 here from 430miler, "he has led his team [to] the nba finals several years in a row".... um, no he hasn't, in fact, i think he hasn't been there ever...

and to respond to the last thing, i just want to say that jason kidd is pretty close to a pure point guard in the league right now, he does like giving the ball up...

also, kobe scores points, yes, but isn't that what your shooting guard is supposed to do, shoot? not defending kobe or his style of play, but everybody always questions his ability to distribute the ball, but I didn't think that was the shooting guards duty...

just noticing wrote:

reading number 3 here from 430miler, "he has led his team [to] the nba finals several years in a row".... um, no he hasn't, in fact, i think he hasn't been there ever...

Wrong. He has been there several times with the maverics and several times with the suns. Each time, he was the primary reason for them being there. He made several game winning shots and several shots that took the mavs and suns into overtime at the nba finals. Its not nashs fault that someone else on his team f'd up and made them lose.

He deserves MVP again this year.

This is gotten absurd. Nash is awesome, but he's had 2 great seasons and a bunch of good seasons. To talk about his being better than Magic goes beyond the ridiculous.

He hasn't won any championships yet! He's been great for 2 years!