I guess Fam really failed when he won the US championship.
What good is winning the US championship if you can't then test yourself against the world's best.
Bickford and Porter never failed to show up and be competitive with the world's best. Hall and his comtempories seem to be unaware what it takes to run against the world's best. To them the 50 states are the world.
Jefe in the CO wrote:
Are you implying that they don't possess competitive toughness?
Are you implying that I'm implying that they don't possess ENOUGH competitive toughness or that they don't possess ANY competitive toughness? Your simplistic statement is too open-ended.
If you are then I hope you are qualified to judge them (that doesn't mean decimating the field back in your Jr High running days). If you aren't qualified then go back to being a hack.
Yeah, of course I'm qualified to judge whether or not they have enough competitive toughness to make any noise on the world stage. You clearly wouldn't be able to judge whether or not they have enough competitive toughness but you don't have to "go back to" being a hack as you were never anything but one.
So from this little pearl of wisdom am I to surmise that you weren't much of a track athlete. Cross country is quite a bit different and until they put it in the Olympics it will mostly matter only to European longitudes during Olympic years.
You can, but in the same breath you'd be implicitly confessing ignorance. World XC is THE toughest annual race on the international calendar. PERIOD.
Yes I do.
Which speaks to your own mental toughness, or lack thereof, and explains why you fail to detect any deficiency in that of notable others.
Dathan and Adam are not Tergat or Bek.
Really?? What was your first clue?
If they want to put themselves into the position to pull a Billy Mills they will need to squeeze every bit of talent that they have available to themselves.
This isn't 1964, rube, not even close.
They will also need to be healthy and lucky.
That's not all, though!
Comparing them to Tergat or Bek is a waste of time and implies that you have the mind of a chimp.
I'll take that as a compliment from one who has the mind of a dung beetle. If you failed to pick up that if Tergat or Bekele (uh, Bek? Pick that one up from dyestat?), among countless others (including great US runners), can run world cross and medal in the Olympics and win on the roads then it's a safe bet that they did it as part of their development towards becoming championship runners. Winners embrace tough competition, losers avoid it.
your logic is pretty lame..how does racing on the roads against weak domestic fields transfer to the track or the marathon.
anyway dathan hurt himself preparing for a 8km road race! i don't know how this prepares him for the us olympic trials. i doubt he will even make the us team...let alone pulling a billy mills at bejing! (pull your head out)
xc is a sport of strength and endurance.
Great Britain = oxymoron wrote:
Dan Onymous wrote:Hahaha. Outside of Mo Farah, the NCAA could crap on Britain.
and Britain's top marathoner is a woman!
first off i totally agree that The US will continue to be stronger than Great Britain Mo Farah or not, i'm happy to see him do so well, but i think that we have a number of runners who could clearly run with him. 15th at world cross is pretty great, but Goucher (never mind the nucleus of guys surrounding Goucher) was 6th in 2006 or 05 and this was with out the whole ethiopian team dropping out. realistically if ethiopia finished farah would have been at least 2 or 3 places back still.
but that brings me onto the original question.
i really would have liked to see our guys at this world championship, but honestly if i were them and knew i'd probably have a chance to make it again in my life then i would probably decide to say i'll wait til next year as well. honestly marathoning is what's going to bring running into the limelight so anyone that's skipping for marathon plans i applaud you and wish you best of luck. if i see guys dropping out of a european site or any other place that is a little less volatile then i will be pretty mad but this i can understand.
I applaud all the guys from the US team that went and enjoyed this experience and i'm sure it's these runners that understand the joy of representing your country better than any of our elite guys ever will.
1) That finish by Goucher (2006) was in the weaker (by far) of two watered-down races, not a combined field like this year.
2) None of the guys who ran in Boulder and quit on their country have had any spring marathon plans. The top US runners doing a spring marathon, Meb and Hall, at least ended up doing the honest thing by not running the qualifier race as they had no intention of going to Kenya.
...you'd wait til next year then, huh????
there are NO gaurantees in life
"wait til next year"!!!! r u kidding!!!
live in the now & take advantage of opportunities, cause tomorrow is not promised 4 ANYONE, even our Godlike USA distance runners
please....
Between the International no-shows and DNF's, Mombasa featured the weakest results in recent history. No Bek, Geb, Mottram,Choge, Shaheen, Sihine, Khanouchi, Wanjiru, etc. etc.. Congrats to Tadesse and others who survived this "Eco-Challenge", but the athleticism was sucked out of this event overall.
When can the IAAF award this event to Point Barrow, Death Valley or Denali Base Camp (14,000' elevation). I'd love to see this kind of race on U.S. soil.
couple issues wrote:
1) That finish by Goucher (2006) was in the weaker (by far) of two watered-down races, not a combined field like this year.
2) None of the guys who ran in Boulder and quit on their country have had any spring marathon plans. The top US runners doing a spring marathon, Meb and Hall, at least ended up doing the honest thing by not running the qualifier race as they had no intention of going to Kenya.
What's dishonest about competing in the National Championships?
[quote]sam wrote:
first off i totally agree that The US will continue to be stronger than Great Britain Mo Farah or not, i'm happy to see him do so well, but i think that we have a number of runners who could clearly run with him.
Really? So why didn't they go to Mombassa then? How often have Ritz, Hall or Goucher run well in championships outside of the US? Meb is the only US runner to run well (once!!) in a championships this side of the 2000.
15th at world cross is pretty great,
He was 10th you dick!
but Goucher (never mind the nucleus of guys surrounding Goucher) was 6th in 2006 or 05
In the short race you dick!
and this was with out the whole ethiopian team dropping out. realistically if ethiopia finished farah would have been at least 2 or 3 places back still.
Four Ethiopians finished you dick!
Please get your facts straight my old china otherwise you'll be bashed all day long!
quote]
Paula Radcliff did win WXC and London the same year!
Why any of those American guys can't even run those 2 races ? knowing that they can't win WXC or London anyway, there is no pressure! they should make the most of it to publicize the sport in there country.
Goucher is history! lets talk present and future.
Paula didn't have to run in a hellhole that year. To have an idea how she would have fared in Mombasa-like (i.e. not near as bad) conditions, reference Athens.
Sartre JP. wrote:
Paula Radcliff did win WXC and London the same year!
Why any of those American guys can't even run those 2 races ? knowing that they can't win WXC or London anyway, there is no pressure! they should make the most of it to publicize the sport in there country.
Neither Hall and the rest they didn't even line up! 2 different races my dear and different runners. Half of the planet knows Paula Radcliff, she won everything before arriving to Athen, she couldn't take the pressure.
For those guys where is the pressure?! none of them are known outside the USA apart from the great Meb!
Quit talking out of both sides of your mouth. Exactly which of the contenders for London 07 were competing in Mombasa? I'll answer for you, before you get to mangle the logic: NONE. No serious runner would ruin their preparations by sidetracking into that sweatfest.
Sartre JP. wrote:
Neither Hall and the rest they didn't even line up! 2 different races my dear and different runners. Half of the planet knows Paula Radcliff, she won everything before arriving to Athen, she couldn't take the pressure.
For those guys where is the pressure?! none of them are known outside the USA apart from the great Meb!
Fasil Bizuneh with the finest coach in the USA (Scott Simmons) made the excellent choice to run in both Mombasa and will be running in London. This is the same Bizuneh that kicked Meb's ass in Houston. I am not sure what to expect from him in London but I guarantee it will be ahead of Meb.
You see our Friend "Wronger than wrong" has got an answer for you!
But back to the point, you said "contenders".
I don't see any of those American guys as contenders, they could have use Monbassa as a race abroad to make themselves a bit more known to the public!
Jon Brown did it in 2004 and finished 4th at Athens! and him wasn't a contender but maybe he was less poncey!
It can be done and it has been done many times
go back to dyestat wrote:
I'll take that as a compliment from one who has the mind of a dung beetle. If you failed to pick up that if Tergat or Bekele (uh, Bek? Pick that one up from dyestat?), among countless others (including great US runners), can run world cross and medal in the Olympics and win on the roads then it's a safe bet that they did it as part of their development towards becoming championship runners. Winners embrace tough competition, losers avoid it.
Wow, you are one tough nut to crack. Let me put it in words that you can understand...No matter how hard you try, ruby slippers and all, no amount of inspirational double talk will turn Ritz and Gouch (can't wait until you jump on this abbreviation senior dung beetle) into favorites in Beijing. They have a perfectly legitimate right to skip a World XC championship if that's what they need to do to take their shot next year. When Billy Mills toed the line in '64 people gave him the same odds that our infamous duo have, slim to none.
I do agree that my logic is weak but so is the logic that they should run so they can magically transform themselves into world beaters and proudly represent our country by putting their health and careers at risk. This country won't give a crap about them when their career is done.
I'm in awe of the simple mindedness of the posts when it comes to this subject. It goes without saying that it is a tough race that rewards strength and endurance and, in a non Olympic year, could help one in developing competitive toughness (which I'm still convinced this dyestat yahoo knows nothing about). But it is a cross country race. It is not in the Olympics. Nobody, except needle brained motivational speakers and some overly patriotic letsrun.com'ers, in America cares, especially sponsors. They are going after the big prize not some sauna in Africa.
Also, some guy from the UK comes on with an intelligent point of view and all of sudden everyone turns into Dubya and blasts him for being weak and lily livered.
I especially like the one about some idiot respecting Hall and Meb for having the "courage" not to race in our national championships. What a bunch of morons...
Jefe in the CO wrote:
Wow, you are one tough nut to crack.
Damn right, I don't give up or back down if I don't feel like it.
Let me put it in words that you can understand...No matter how hard you try, ruby slippers and all, no amount of inspirational double talk will turn Ritz and Gouch (can't wait until you jump on this abbreviation senior dung beetle) into favorites in Beijing.
So? You're the only one saying that here. I'm saying that there are few enough chances to learn how to race against the best of the best, and skipping World XC is just a pointless way to short-change one's race seasoning and competitive toughness.
They have a perfectly legitimate right to skip a World XC championship if that's what they need to do to take their shot next year.
So? Who says that they
need to"?
When Billy Mills toed the line in '64 people gave him the same odds that our infamous duo have, slim to none.
Billy Mills still has nothing to do with Goucher or Ritz. Clarke, Gammoudi, and co. won't be lining up to race in Beijing and neither Goucher nor Ritz would be capable of breaking an Olympic record there.
I do agree that my logic is weak but so is the logic that they should run so they can magically transform themselves into world beaters and proudly represent our country by putting their health and careers at risk. This country won't give a crap about them when their career is done.
Their health and careers at risk? Have you even been paying attention? Hell, even a middle distance runner from outside the area like Rashid Ramzi saw past the irrational fears that US runners let scare them away.
I'm in awe of the simple mindedness of the posts when it comes to this subject. It goes without saying that it is a tough race that rewards strength and endurance and, in a non Olympic year, could help one in developing competitive toughness (which I'm still convinced this dyestat yahoo knows nothing about). But it is a cross country race. It is not in the Olympics.
It'd help more than duking it out with fellow weak sisters for a flipping domestic road title. World Championships on track aren't the Olympics, either, but they're just as important in instilling competitive toughness in facing the best in the world.
Nobody, except needle brained motivational speakers and some overly patriotic letsrun.com'ers, in America cares, especially sponsors.
Since when is a career entirely about pleasing sponsors or "America"?
They are going after the big prize not some sauna in Africa.
Which is actually a big prize, rube, as attested to by the likes of Tergat, Radcliffe, and Bekele.