Boston Tactics: time in the bank or negative splits?

IMO you're looking at it the right way - breaking it up into 3 big chunks.

for 4 miles of the miles between 16 and 21 where you can expect to give back some time. the 19th mile should be back at goal pace.

i say run right at or barely under goal pace the first 16; maintain a steady effort through the hills; get back on pace; assess in mile 22; and then give it what you got for the finish.

IMO 90-120 seconds is too much to "bank" i say aim for 45-60 seconds

i don't think hammering the hills is the way to run the fastes time

this is a tough course on which to run negative splits for the 2 halves - but it is very doable to run at a much faster pace for the last 5 if you've been smart early

Hopefully, through your training, you'll be able to assess what the right marathon pace is by feel to run a slightly negative split (if the course were flat). Since the course is faster in the first half, then maybe your splits will be even (instead of negative). BUT, you HAVE to be able to come off the Newton Hills still able to run well. That's where everyone pays back all that time they supposedly "banked".

Ten four... I AM worried about paying back that 'banked' time after the hills. However, I have little confidence that I'd be able to run sub goal pace for the final 5, even if the entire course were flat. I am pretty sure that i will slow down (I know, I know, self fulfilling prophecy)...as such, I want to bank SOME time. Perhaps I should take the previous poster's advice and bank 45-60. But I need to bank something.

I don't think hammering the hills is the way to run the fastest time

This is a big deal at Boston. You want to run the hills relaxed- don't fight them. There are just way too many of them, and plenty of downhills to go along with them. Bill Rodgers says he never fought the uphills- just ran as smoothly as possible and saved himself for the downs.

Agree. Don't "hammer" the uphills. Course familiarity would help. You have to be able to just know the right pace without totally relying on your watch.

Don't have course familiarity...just know the elevation profile. Here's what I was thinking: Write down on my hand the 7 different miles that are uphill to any extent...and allow myself to be over pace on those, and try to be a little under (or even) on all the rest.

But I will heed the general warning: don't run like an idiot.

The "hills" are really just a few sections of about 500m of uphill running at 16, 17.6, 19.25, and 20.4 (give or take).

You can certainly make up some time in between the uphills and especially from 18-19.

The last 5 miles of the course are as runner friendly as any marathon I've ever heard of, although it may seem like the most painful running of your life if your quads are shot.

Anyone who says to negative split is giving you the best advice, trying to bank time rarely works and if the weather isn't in your favor it makes banking even harder.

Boston's a funny course, you might say.

Don't look at the splits that the elites (men or women, funkbunker's goal time is close to an elite woman's IIRC from the marathon training thread) put down to get a feel for how to divide the effort. Tactics matter up front.

Like all marathons you probably want to focus on a particular distribution of effort. This will lead to a more uneven distribution of pace than it would at Chicago or Rotterdam, but the idea is the same.

On the downhills you want to pick up time without pounding your legs away. Hopefully you've been practicing that in training, how to glide down the hills at a good pace without braking and doing it easier. Down the steepest hills you should be both ahead of (even) goal pace, and working below normal effort.

A hill that can ruin Boston is the steep descent into Newton Lower Falls before the series of stepped climbs up to the top of Heartbreak. That descent is the steepest after the crazy first mile, and coming at about mile 16 your legs are getting tired and not as elastic/absorbent of shock.

For 2:30 an even effort will probably be 1:14/1:16 or something similar.

You could look at it this way: cruise the first 15 at goal pace but at less than goal effort. That right there ought to 'bank' you some fuel for the real race. For most people, it seems to me, the marathon is about making your energy last until you get close enough to the finish to survive. Marathon pace really ought to be nearly effortless for 15 miles, even though you are burning sugar and fat. If you can use less of it to get to 15 miles than you might otherwise, you'll be well positioned to finish strong. Doesn't the idea of running even pace, hammering past people, and finishing just as you hit the wall sound better than slowing down the last several miles and desperately trying to figure out if you have enough 'banked' to make it?

I think you have received good advise here. Adrenaline, the crowds and camraderie will dictate your day. Your strategy may or may not be influenced by the weather so be prepared to adjust.

I will however call you out. Regardless of what you do, be confident. If you've done your homework and go in with a game plan, believe you've made the right decision. Even if you die, you've learned for next time. Plus by the time you die, you will love the crowd support. Good luck and have fun.

Yes, have a good run! Run hard (but not like an idiot, as you say) and have fun!

another way is to look at big splits - 5ks or groups of 4-5 miles. as you are aware, your mile-to-mile time will vary with the undulating course

have you seen this:

http://www.box.net/public/75o3rqgty9

you can play with the even effort/even pacing to get slightly different numbers and split ideas

That is a beautiful picture you paint...and definetly food for thought. In the two marathons I've run (yes i'm a novice) the misery was well underway by 21. Banking energy instead of time might be wise if I want to delay the misery until 23 or 24... but I do think that some time needs to be banked. Perhaps 1:14/1:16 as Flightless said.

I won't have computer access until monday so I won't be able to monitor any other responses--but thanks for everything so far! And if you have any real gems of advice please don't hesitate:

drew@casemountainracing.com

have a fantastic weekend of training folks...

-Funkbunker

Great thread! Lots of great advice.

I would refine the "three chunks" strategy a bit to four chunks. :) For roughly the first three miles, I think the strategy has to be hold back, hold back, hold back. You get a lot of nice downhill, you're fresh, you've had hours to sit around anticipating the race and probably talking to other runners who are also hyped up, there are huge crowds, lots of noise...it is ridiculously easy to go out too fast, more so than other marathons, IMO. If you can seriously hold yourself back for about the first three, then I think you can relax the reins a little bit and ease into goal pace. Then take the hills late in the course with the same level of effort (of course you will be slower, but that is good). When you come off the hills, you really want to have a lot left in the tank. The crowds are great there, too, and the course really flattens out. It is a great opportunity to make time and build to a really strong finish. If you get there with nothing left, you'll be cursing yourself for a fool.

It will be the hardest mental exercise I will probably ever do, but this is my strategy. If I go out too fast, I know I'll be paying it back with interest just when I want to be able to pick it up.

Good luck and have a great race!

great mental approach Boston is harder mentally than it is physically

beantownbound wrote:

...it is ridiculously easy to go out too fast, more so than other marathons, IMO.

absolutely!

shameless bump for more opinions

funkbunker wrote:

Figured I'd get a wide range of opinions here...

A friend of mine is convinced that I need to run the first 15 or so mile (downhill) at or slower than my goal pace (5:43). He insists that the proper strategy is to hold way back on all this downhill, running 5:43's or slower, and then have the confidence to plan on negative-splitting up the hills and into Boston.

Your friend isn't familiar with Boston's topography then. The downhill is all in the first 4 miles and in the last 5 miles, with a half mile body blow at 15 miles.

I doubt you're going to negative Boston, the downhills will keep you from it.

Malmo, what is the best approach in your opinion?

I've tried that tactic. Putting "time in the bank." What a disaster. To put time in the time bank, I have to withdraw energy from the energy bank.

And the energy bank charges interest...