Ryan Hall's Comments on Jacksonville

gorney wrote:

Flagpole, you posting after a Patti Dillon post is like listening to Linda McCartney play the keyboards after Mozart has just walked off the stage. Or like hearing the430miler try to articulate something after Shakespeare has just delivered a soliloquy.

I don't know how you feel entitled to rip Hall after one so-so race, but you sure do leave an odorous flume over an otherwise good thread. Thanks for telling us where your next race might be, though. That certainly was germane to the discussion. I'm glad you're not some kind of blowhard.

Hey brother, I enjoy a Patti Dillon (hard for me to think of her with that name) post as much as the next guy, but it doesn't make her right. In many ways you have to take what an elite or former elite runner says about another elite runner with a grain of salt. They tend to stick together like policemen or broom salesmen.

I've noticed that around here too.

It's really not whether Patti Dillon is right or wrong or whether you're right or wrong, Flagpole. You tend to believe you're RIGHT even when we're all dealing with conjecture and opinion. Your insistance on being right all the time is what I'm calling you on, since you've all but admitted being "right" is what you're all about on this thread.

It's lamentable that a world-class hall-of-fame athlete can't come on here and share in the discourse without being summarily dismissed by the great Flagpole Willy. If that's not arrogance, what is?

Interesting how whenever malmo says anything that may tangentially agree with something you have said, you just about jump in his lap and give him a big sloppu kiss.

**sloppy kiss**

for "wussing out" with 8+ miles to go, I'd say second place is pretty good.

Well, I'd like to help you out FPW, but the problem is that you're a born arguer. You are defensive, insecure, and display a need to be correct and condescending. These are your psychological characteristics. However, I don't think that they prevent you from leading a productive life, to the extent that your dreary existance in the asshole of America can be called productive. I mean you're a family man, right? So you're doing OK.

You see, that is my main point, and one that you refused to comprehend. It is not so much the phsychological analysis, which is merely (for the most part) baseless. Trust me, I have read more of your words and have a keener insight into your tortured psyche, than you have any insight into the inner workings of Mr. Hall. It is your belief that you understand racing at the elite level to state that Hall's attitude (whatever it may be) renders him incapable of competing against the world's best. Then when an elite athlete posts her interpretation, instead of trying to gain insight from those words, you dismiss them because they do not fit your rigid world view. It really is that important to be right, isn't it?

My using Webb as an example was not to state that you can not psychoanalyze athletes, or that their psychological makeup is not important. I stated that I came to this conclusion after reading an entire book that chronicled his training and racing, not after reading one post-race quote. More importantly is the point that even forming this opinion (which is all it is) would not move me to make the same sort of sweeping, bombastic proclamations that you made about Hall's utter inability to ever compete on the world stage. You have no idea.

There are plenty of reasons that could explain Hall's mental/emotional state during that race. Patti offered a very plausible one. She did this based on years of putting herself through the same struggles that Hall is now experiencing for the first time (at this level, perhaps). You played the wuss card. Nice.

You are guessing that Hall's performance each and every time out is based on his "excitement". Doubtful. It is possible that his record breaking performances will be limited to those times that he is on top of his game both physically and mentally. I would suggest this is true of most athletes. Deep in the middle of a hard training cycle to bridge a breakthrough record-setting performance with his marathon debut is not likely to be one of those instances.

I should get over myself? Oh, my magniloquent brother!

midwesta wrote:

for "wussing out" with 8+ miles to go, I'd say second place is pretty good.

Pretty good will buy you a whole bunch of anonymity.

"

The point is not that you or FPW needs to run faster than Hall to criticize. The questionable behavior is talking out of your ass on subjects for which you have no basis for rationale thought.

In this case, FPW not only feels he can fully psychoanalyze Ryan Hall from one quote in the paper, but he also somehow believes he has the insight to understand exactly what mental attributes are REQUIRED to succeed in international racing. Of course it is easier to state that certain traits are desirable, but this turd is spouting off that due to psychological deficiencies (that are speculative at best) that Hall will NEVER climb the podium at a major event. Talk about hubris.

While putting up performances that seem superhuman to most on this board, all these athletes we follow are, in fact human. They try their best to succeed with whatever they bring to the table. I am certain that none are beyond self doubt and that all have experienced weakness in a race as much as they have in their personal lives. Arguing that ultimate success requires this "perfect mindset" is misguided. The surprising part is that some of you see this or any other perceived imperfection as reason to scorn them. WTF? They did something to you?

I can see that when you're a Red Sox fan that you're going to hate the Yankees as a team, and most of their players. That's how the game works. And while I am guilty of that bias with sports teams, for the life of me I can't see how anyone would carry over that sort of vitriol into this sport.

After reading Sub 4, it bacame pretty clear to me that Webb's head is quite often going to get in the way of

his performances. And I don't mean that his large cranium will physically impede his running, but that he has the ability to think his way out of optimal performance. So what, do I need to heep scorn on him for that. No? Even not being a Webb "fan" I love to see him do well. This essentially human part of him is what he brings to the starting line every time. It's part of the struggle that defines sport. You may be battling superior opponents or you may be battling yourself, but there is an internal and an external component to each race, and without that, where would the fun be?

Every athlete has an achilles heel, and not of course the ones that flare up when transitioning to spikes. I think that FPW and others posting on this site are way off the mark in suggesting that Hall's is that he is mentally soft. There are a million ways to interpret his remarks. I would interpret them much differently, but it would really just be a guess, and no better than FPWs, my superior intellect not withstanding.

There are enough reasons for me not to slobber Hall with adoration. Personally, I could live without hearing the praise the lord claptrap. But what possible reason would I (or anyone else) have to trash him as a person or an athlete? He will accomplish great things. As runners we all understand that each workout, and even each race is inconsequential in the long road that is training for success as an endurance athlete. Why, therefore is there this preoccupation with dissecting each race and each quote for global significance. It's a long journey folks. Hall had a very good race in the middle of his long journey toward marathon greatness. Whether his result didn't meet unrealistic expectations due to physical or mental reasons is of no consequence because of where he's at right now.

"

Oh GOD... I wish I was as smart as you to be able to put my thoughts into words like this. This is why I was bashing Flagpole...cause he has no understanding of what it takes to ever run at a top level, yet he bashes Hall for a human mistake, that all runners make. Thank you for your amazing post. Wejo>>>>>POST OF THE DAY RIGHT HERE, it deserves to be on the front page.

Every athlete has lost focus during a competition. I would be willing to bet that Ryan doesn't really know why? A microphone was put in front of him and he felt obligated to give an answer. To analyze this is silly. To say that he should of responded differently is fair and I am sure that Ryan would concur.

Here's to shining some positive light into this obviously intense thread. Ryan Hall is Superman.

1) I don't have a need to be correct. I either am correct or I am not correct. I laugh anytime someone tells me I always think I'm right AS THEY ARE DISAGREEING WITH ME. That then means that on said subject, THEY think they are right. Of course I think I'm right when I give an opinion. That's what people have when they have an opinion -- something they think is right. I am no different than anyone else here in that regard.2) Kind of funny also how you believe you have my psychological profile pegged when you say I can't do that for anyone else. Guess you're cooler or better than me in some way. Hopefully it doesn't make you feel TOO good to hear that. That would be sinful.3) Understanding elite racing isn't necessary in this case. We're not talking about pacing or when to throw in a tactical surge. We're talking about human nature here, and as I'm quite keen on how people behave in certain ways and why, Hall's comments threw up a red flag to me (and to WEJO also, a one-time, and perhaps future again, national caliber runner). So, my observations were based on human nature, not some huge insight into elite running.4) Who says I didn't try to gain insight from Patti Dillon's words? What, she's an elite runner so I need to agree with everything she says? Without pointing any fingers, it's a good thing I don't listen to everything other elite runners have done or I'd be divorced, a drunkard, a former smoker, using banned substances and left with no shred of dignity. Just because an elite runner says something doesn't make them right. AND, I'm hardly a born arguer. Malmo is a former elite runner and I agree with him most of the time. So, I'm hardly just trying to put myself on a pedestal above anyone who has some running clout. For what it's worth, I'm a huge PD fan and have followed her career from the beginning. I just disagree with her on this issue.5) My feeling on Ryan Hall didn't come after this ONE QUOTE! I've been highly critical of him all along, and I expressed great surprise and congrats when he busted that 59:43. He rose a notch in my opinion then, as I'm sure he did for most. No way anyone thought he would run sub 60 on that day. I thought maybe he had turned a corner. I was waiting for another strong performance. He didn't have one, and he opened his soul with that comment of his that made me realize what it was about him that kept him from being consistently good. It was hardly based on this one comment.6) You wrote this -- "You are guessing that Hall's performance each and every time out is based on his "excitement"." NOPE. NOT guessing. He said so. I KNOW it to be true. Unless he's lying, and since lying is a sin, I don't think he is -- as he's such a religious person and all.Ever hear Geb or hell even Pre say that they didn't do well because they weren't "excited"?

Team USA wrote:

Every athlete has lost focus during a competition. I would be willing to bet that Ryan doesn't really know why? A microphone was put in front of him and he felt obligated to give an answer.

I agree. Probably none of us can relate to the high of Hall's Houston race. To not be excited about the way the 15K was unfolding was probably a reflection of a post-Houston letdown. Normally I'd call BS for a non-Olympic/WC post-period. But not this time. In fact, I went through the exact same thing after a high school dual meet (of all things). So it's not like I'm going to rip on Hall for a letdown following 59:43.

I can tell you that as a former Hanson athlete the bros. would always preach this to us. One of the main reasons that we got away from running races in our marathon prep was to try to avoid just this. If Ryan were to focus 100% on a successful 15k he probably would have not had the proper mind set for London. If he doesn't focus on the 15k then he often loses confidence going into the marathon. If London is his honest goal during this segment then nothing positive could be drawn from the 15k. I realize that some athletes have been able to do both, but they are the rarity.

FPW,

The sure sign of a compulsive arguer is the point by point rebuttal. This is the second you've given me. Of course, they are always selective points being rebutted. Since your response to all other areas was so comprehensive I can only assume you will not contest the fact that you lead a dreary existence in the asshole of America.

Look, you state yourself that you have been critical of Hall all along. I say, grow up. Seriously. What's the pay off? Examine your motives. Figure out some other way of feeling important than with the know it all b.s. What part of assuming that you have Hall or any other athlete all figured out gives you the warm fuzzies? If it is something that does not require the adulation from others, than please spare us your keen insight and feel omniscient all to yourself. You admit to having been wrong about Hall before, learn from that and keep the all authoritative, declarations to yourself. When you stated that you were waiting for another strong performance to see if Hall had turned a corner, you realize you waited all of one race, which was not his focus? Does that seem valid?

And after years of spouting your rhetoric on this board you really think I would have a hard time claiming to understand your psychology better than you could understand Hall's? This has nothing to do with the fact that I am both cooler and better than you, it has to do with your exhaustive body of work on this message board.

I've posted under this handle since the T&F Media days and have never joined a FPW bashing thread before. Just so you know my normal level of tolerance for your blathering. Today I'd had enough. I know nothing I say to you will register in the least, but for the love of crap please stop pretending that your opinions mean something.

Flagpole Willy wrote:

Ever hear Geb or hell even Pre say that they didn't do well because they weren't "excited"?

They may not have used that EXACT word (which you seem a little too obsessed with), but I am sure they have said similar things before. Here are some Geb quotes for you-

" "I have never prepared better for a race than I did for the London Marathon,” he says. “My small races before London were great. I was not even thinking of winning or losing. I was thinking only of the time.”

But when he woke up in the morning before the race, he knew that months of rigorous preparations would be ruined because of the weather.

“I always hate running on wet surfaces,” he says. “When I saw that it had rained, I knew this was not going to be my day. I wanted to stop running in the final 3-4kms. I only finished because I would have had to walk to the finish line anyway due to road closures." ”

Wow, talk about psyching yourself out!! A little rain, and he went from sure of victory to KNOWING he would have a bad day! What a mental wimp that Geb is!

And.....he was still on 2:08 pace (something ANYone can still be proud of to some extent), and he wanted to QUIT the race just because the race did not go as planned!! Wow, Flagpole Willy, what do you make of that? I guess this Geb fellow has shown his real soul, and he is just another Ryan Hall- a talented guy with no mental toughness.

Why can't they all be as tough as, say...I don't know, Ritz ? I mean, talking about medaling at world cross, and then getting a blister and finishing in the 50's (or whatever way back place he got) just shows waaaaaay more toughness than a Ryan Hall, huh?

Willy, is there EVER a time that you wish you didn't make a statement or comment or prediction so assuredly and confidently?

I agree. I was reading it and I'm like "Post of the Day"

Speaking of which, I'm going to turn back on the post of the day thing for everyone I think.

If we got everyone to use it it might be worthwhile. The problem was only a few people tried it and then when there cookies expired that was that.

haha...AWESOME...wejo responded to me...i feel so special hahahaha

waaaay former Hanson wrote:

I can tell you that as a former Hanson athlete the bros. would always preach this to us. One of the main reasons that we got away from running races in our marathon prep was to try to avoid just this. If Ryan were to focus 100% on a successful 15k he probably would have not had the proper mind set for London. If he doesn't focus on the 15k then he often loses confidence going into the marathon. If London is his honest goal during this segment then nothing positive could be drawn from the 15k. I realize that some athletes have been able to do both, but they are the rarity.

I was thinking about this with Deena- has anyone commented on that yet? She ran a very strong 15k in (what I can only assume) is still her marathon buildup phase. Granted, she only has about 4 more weeks of real training, but I doubt she did much of a taper for this one. Anyone read anything about her prep for this one with regard to Boston?

wejo wrote:

I agree. I was reading it and I'm like "Post of the Day"

Speaking of which, I'm going to turn back on the post of the day thing for everyone I think.

If we got everyone to use it it might be worthwhile. The problem was only a few people tried it and then when there cookies expired that was that.

Definitely do it.

Also, today's quote of the day was awesome.

"Who are these so arrogant, wicked, and blasphemes? They are men whose fathers are less than my dogs. These are a burden to society and useless and stupid fools; children of no name, outcasts and a little better than animals."

Now that's an insult!