long-term effects of training in racing flats

Good idea about the insoles. I guess that would be easier than using cork. The cork doesn't break down, though. And it doesn't smell as bad as an old insole :)

If you want to train in lighter shoes but still have some support, check out some of the lighter training shoes now available. I run in the Asics DS trainers. They are super light but have just enough stabilization. I am on my 9th pair.

anyone had a pair of spiridon's on their feet yet?

Has anyone just done their tempo and speed work in flats and long runs in trainers?

"The heel relative to forefoot height is smaller in the lightweight trainer or flat so you are able to put more of a stretch on the calf. This lack of stretch in a heavy training show can lead to chronic tightness of the calf and could even lead to achilles problems. This is compounded by running in flats during races while training in heavy trainers. This sudden change in heel height could overtime lead to injury."

I think you have diagnosed what I've done absolutely perfectly. I was running in "cushion" shoes, Asics cumulus the entire winter running 100 mile weeks, and racing in ventulus. I got a slight foot injury which caused me to compensate, which led to a pretty severe knee injury. Coming back to running after taking 2+ weeks off, and changing to a different "updated version" of the cumulus, I started getting some achilles tightness. I continued running through the summer and came down with a nasty case of achilles tendonitis at the insertion. Now I have made a switch to NB 900s and older fila racing flats. It definitely has been an adjustment as my calves feel tight, but I think that my achilles has been improving. It is just really hard to shake the tendonitis.

long term wrote:

they break down faster than trainers. you will spend more money.

they do not have much medial side posting, so if you are an overpronater you may start to experience hip, knee or joint pains in the legs. anything is possible.

finally they are not as cushioned. doing that kind of pounding require some cushion and in the long run you arent getting it.

go get some trainers and leave the flats for tempo runs, speed sessions and races.

1. they break down faster than trainers, you will spend more money

ANSWER: I have gotten 500 miles out of both of my asics ultimate flats, don't plan on giving up on them till like 700 miles on each. I spent 40 bucks for each pair.

2. they do not have much medial side posting, so if you are an overpronater you may start to experience hip, knee or joint pains in the legs. anything is possible.

ANSWER: No, they don't, but I'm an overpronator, and since being in flats, I've had no problems whatsoever.

3. finally they are not as cushioned. doing that kind of pounding require some cushion and in the long run you arent getting it.

ANSWER: They aren't as cushioned. I have run consistently pretty high mileage around 100 mpw or more for the past 13 weeks, haven't needed the cushioning yet.

4. go get some trainers and leave the flats for tempo runs, speed sessions and races

ANSWER: Asics ultimate 81's for all easy training sessions / long runs / progression runs...I wear adidas cubatos for mile repeats and tempo runs....I wear Nike Waffle flats for short intervals.

....so far the best season I've ever had since I started 4-5 years ago.

I'm a rather large runner (175 lbs) with low arches and several injuries over the past few years. Since switching to flats this Summer from Motos I've been completely healthy, have greatly increased my mileage, and am faster than I ever have been (and this is my base phase!) I've also been able to get about 500 miles out of each pair of Nike Ekidens before they're cooked. No clue about long-term issues, but until I hang up my spikes, I think I'm sticking with the flats.

About the Spiridons, I had a pair once last year. They were a lot of fun to run in and were very nice and flexible, however they lasted about 2 weeks (only about 140 miles) before the Air pocket popped. Many other people have complained about durability issues as well.

BCT,

I've heard that the Cubato has a 9mm "drop"... Do you have different data?

I've heard 9 or 8mm for the Cubatos.

I ran 9 miles in the H Streets this morning, but that may have been too much too soon because my hip/butt (maybe piriformis?) is sore this afternoon.

So I'm still looking for the transition shoe -- one with a bit more cushioning and arch support, but that won't cause me to pronate like most shoes do. Cubatos is in the running -- I thought that it might be a little too curved until I tried the T3 which is very curved. I suppose that I should look at the DS-Racer or the Tiger Paw, but I never liked the older DS-Racer very much. I've ruled out the NB205 and the T3. Any advice would be welcomed. Doug, I seem to recall from your previous posts that we may have some similar form issues -- midfoot striker, but some pronation issues due to toing out.

I don't think it has to be such an all or nothing proposition. I run (during base training) about 80 miles per week (sometimes into the 90's, rarely below 75). Most of my longer runs are done in Gel Tiger Paws (I assume these are considered a racing flat?). Probably about 3 days per week I'll run my second workout of the day (5 - 7 miles) in whatever else I have kicking around (currently NB 1220's). Knock on wood I've had no injury problems and have been switching up in the fashion for about 10 years. I've been running since 1966 (not continuously, just daily).