Lydiard Build-Up Question

3-4 weeks???!!!???

Was this 3-4 weeks of the 3x 90-120 minute runs?

It takes 3-4 weeks to start getting the effect of distance work and start to feel strong (in other words, it may be a bit of a struggle for the first 3 to 4 weeks). You can't expect to put on a pair of running shoes and start going out distance work and be as strong from the get-go.

I also had great success with Lydiard's methods. I never found it terribly hard. It was hard enough to be satisfying.

But Arthur was always telling me just to get in the miles and not to worry too much about the pace.

When I talked with Snell, he said that he always found the base training "quite enjoyable" and that they'd do a long run one day and then follow it up with a shorter run that was "a bit faster."

That was pretty much the basis for my original answer, which was pretty much confined to the original question. I would agree completely with Nobby, the thing you want to cover in the base phase is the three longish runs. You do want to get some variation in pace and effort and in the original plan, that was done on the shorter days. But you could do it as Nobby suggests, with some faster sections on a long run, with some strides or hills. But your first priority would be to get the three long runs in.

Certainly, Arthur never even knew what AT and AeT meant and you can do Lydiard training without worrying about that sort of thing.

In other words, there is a certain period that I mistakingly took it as "Chapter One"; "home work period" you need to get up to consistant Marathon Conditioning. Snell used to start to build up to 100MPW and it took him a few weeks till he got up there (it's in his biography). Magee said he used t plod along slowly till he got strong enough to join to run with Arthur and his group.

It's not a fast-food formula. You can't expect to go through a drive-through and expect to have the entire meal handed to you in minutes.

So if you've been fundamentally doing 30:00 most days you can go right to 90:00 3x weekly, as long as you do runs of shorter duration on the other days, stay there for 3-4 weeks and can see (or feel) improvement in that (or toward the end of that) time period by simply toughing it out?

I don't mean 100mpw obviously but getting stronger for the duration of the 90:00?

Having been only doing 30 minutes, can you go 90 minutes COMFORTABLY? If not, you need to work up to it. Assuming you're still young and healthy, just get out and do 90 minutes and see how you feel. If you can barely move the next day, perhaps you wait till the third or fourth day to try out another 90 minutes. But, yes, be tough but BE SMART at the same time. Don't follow the schedule, ANY schedule, blindly. Take your own reaction into consideration.

Well I'm age 52 and used to be able to break 6:20 per mile pace for 5-10K in my 30's. I have had a back issue, some PF and a bout with achilles tendonitis since then.

Now, if I can break 8-minute pace in a race I'm happy, as I'm usually in the top 20% of my age bracket...but happier still to be able to run at all. I've learned patience THE HARD WAY.

You younger guys should enjoy every moment of running healthy, I know that now.

Thanks Nobby.

Nobby,

Thanks for your insights. Do you still have a Lydiard web-site? You have done so much to help continue Lydiard's legacy.

Lydiard Base week explained:

Day 1 10 miles (15km) at 1/2 effort over undulating course

Day 2 15 miles (25km) at 1/4 effort over reasonably flat

Day 3 12 miles (20km) at 1/2 effort over hilly course

Day 4 18 miles (30km) at 1/4 effort over reasonably flat

Day 5 10 miles (15km) at 3/4 effort over flat course

Day 6 20-22 miles (35km) at 1/4 effort over reasonably flat

Day 7 15 miles (25km) at 1/4 effort over any type terrain

100-102 miles total

¼ effort= 2 minutes slower than 5k pace

½ effort= 1:30 slower than 5k pace

¾ effort =1 minute slower than 5k pace

After 3-4 weeks of Lydiard style base building you will notice that your fitness has improved: that you can hold the high end aerobic pace for longer, that you can run longer runs in total, that you recover quicker and can do more intense efforts in a week -- all those indicators of fitness.

Improved, not peaked. Still room for lots of improvement.

It is an individual thing. Daws\' books give a slightly better sense of that than the original Lydidard books. If you need to take a recovery day, do so. If you need to take a recovery week and then go back into high mileage do so. It\'s not in the original books, but that doesn\'t matter.

kiwi runner wrote:

So american to get caught up in the details.

so NOT kiwi to be a judgmental prick...so why be the exception?

Richard21142 wrote:

The Lydiard clinic can be found at:

http://www.fitnesssports.com/lyd_clinic_guide/lydpg2.html

Is the "steady state" refering to one's VO2max? Are they the same thing?

I don't think that response was required but I appreciate the sentiment. I can handle an off-handed comment from someone whom I don't know. It's not a problem.

I am operating from the perspective that it was a comical comment, not that it was based on any feelings of inadequacy, as the Kiwis I have met in my lifetime have all had well-developed senses of humor.

Gotta take the high road. After all we have more nuclear weapons than most, and should after all be a bit nicer.

Happy Christmas all you happy smiling faces.

How many guys over the age of 50 are still doing, or are physically able to do, Lydiard's 100-mile week routine?

I've managed it numerous times. I've been doing it lately. But it's really just for fun now, and maybe to see how I hold up.

Been off line for a few days with Computer problems. But Nobby and HRE have addressed the topic well (as usual) If I add anything it would be. Consistency of miles, Consistency of days, Consistency of weeks, Consistency of Months, Consistency of years.

I felt I did not really run well until I put together 2 years of running consistently..

As for 50 year old guys running 100 miles week.

Top 55-59 year old here (NZ)would run maybe anything from 65 to 80 a week in Build up. But his key is a Long run 21/2 plus hours every Sunday.

The last stretch of fairly decent racing that I did (though I didn't recognize it as such at the time) came in the early 90s when I'd have been around 40. I was doing three runs a week of 15-18 miles and running about 7-9 miles on the intervening days. Can't recall why I got away from that, but I suspect it was because I thought something else might have worked even better.

thank you all for the input it's cleared things up for me