Masters Weekend Races and Runs

Orville Atkins wrote:Pete,

Yesterday I recieved my August copy of "Athletics"--"Canada's National track and field/running magazine. Do you or any of the o;ther Canadians on here subscribe?

Orville,

I'm a member of one of the provincial track associations and had the option of tacking on the subscription fee to my membership fee but opted out (membership was enough - I'm a starving student after all). Maybe next year I'll sign up, if you think it's worthwhile. I've never actually seen it, mind you.

A REAL Leggy Foo Girl wrote:

Ooops! Blew my alias! :)

RB

you are FOOr Real!

Skate

What do you know about that Visalia masters meet...seems that its been around a while but I thought that it was typically held earlier in the year? Have you ever run it? Hows the track? Anything you (or anyone else out there) can share I'd really appreciate it...thanks.

MF

It was a pretty decent meet, and was held in May.

I spoke with the race director this year and there was some sort of screw up with the paperwork and I think I encouraged him to hold later in the year because I mentioned the Club west meet. Anyway, The weather will be better, the track is pretty fast, I remember winning a close 400 against Vaughn Castor

Something stuck with me about the meet because I alwasy wanted to go back, but will probably run the 800 this year

Yes, I'd like to hear what you think, 16x.

Biscuit Boy-

The guys on the team now were not born in 1983, but they can look up at the big record board at Kolf and they can see, where it should say 1500m- what they see is: mile/1500m* and that means they should demand some answers. Pending that kind of action, they are dweebs.

At first, I thought, great for Matt! when I heard he broke the record. And then, about a year later, I was going to run the Capitol Mile with him, and he goes, You should have the record back, because I didn't really break it, and I was, like, What? And that's when I found out that Coleman and Zupanc had done some kind of stupid conversion. I asked Jon about it, and he goes, well, you take the NCAA 1500m qualifying standard, and you compare it to the coresponding mile/1500m standard, and you get a conversion factor. Then you apply that to the athlete's mile time to get a theoretical 1500m time. Plus, I had my own watch on him, and the split I got was pretty close to the theoretical. Then you take the faster of the two.

And I was, like, WHAT??? And to Matt, I was, like, if you're honorable, you'll disavow that record. You'll repudiate it. And Matt was, like, I'll disaboo what kind of retrubibatish what? And I knew I had no hope at all of getting my record back.

And I was, like, Jon, Dude, if you want to start comparing performances, we could get a great discusion out of it- what's better, an 18 foot pole vault or a 26 foot long jump? What's better, a 49 split in the 400 hurdles, or a 21 flat 200m? And Jon goes, You'll get more flies with honey than you will with vinegar-

There's a little more to the story. Here goes, for all the world to see. Back in high school, I had a girlfriend. And she was my steady from our sophomore year until halfway through my junior year at Oshkosh. And then she decided to sleep with every other decent looking guy on the track team. So I said, fine, I'll sleep with every girl on the track team (I didn't have no silly notions like "decent looking.") So off we went on our own merry way, until she slept with one of my best friends. That, well, that was an awful lot for a young marine to handle. So I went a little off the handle. And then I resumed my quest, until I got to the best runner on the team, and I fell in love. Totally, head-over-heels in love. L-O-V-E. We even got married! Only thing for the track coach- the women's coach- she (my wife) was her favorite! And I was her most-hated! Oh, how she hated the thought of me with her favorite! And by that point, I didn't even care what Deb thought. I was in love. I forgot very quickly all about my quest for women's team domination- but Deb never forgave me. And I'm not married anymore.

And that's the story of my 1500m record.

To Me and my watch. Max, you have got some serious problems if you are airing your issues with UW-Oshkosh on the internet like this. John Zupanc and Matt Groose have great reputations and are very well liked by most people. I do not know their new track coach. Why does it bother you so much about your record from 23 years ago and why would it make you call the current runners dweebs, since they have nothing to do with this? What did they do to piss you off so much. While I do think it is strange that Oshkosh has a combined 1500 meter/mile record, the bottom line is that Matt ran a faster equivalent in the mile with his 4:03 compared to your 3:47 in the 1500. I could see there being a bigger issue if you had actually run faster. More than likely he went through the 1500 meters faster on the way to his 4:03 mile. Either way, just let it go and don't make yourself look like a complete ass on here.

You definitely have some anger issues judging from most of your posts on here as well. I just suggest you let the whole Oshkosh thing go, or at least keep it off of a thread about masters running. Trashing very reputable people on the internet does not show any class and will not make you a very popular person in the running world. Your other comments about your ex, picking up chicks, etc. don't help your reputation much either. Good luck with all of your issues in the future and I seriously hope you get some help with the feelings that you are going through.

Me & My watch must be 45 or so I am guessing?

I could never run that fast for a 1500 in college, but my suggestion would be to let it go and set some new age group PR's

That is what keeps most of the Masters runners going anyway.

Tell me one thing- just one thing- that I've said that isn't true.

There was this guy I used to work with at Merril Lynch. Everybody loved him. He even helped me get my job there. He was a great basketball player at the UW, and he was a huge producer, and everyone trusted him. And then, a few years ago, he got caught stealing from his clients. It turned out that he'd been stealing for years. But he was never caught because everyone thought he was such a nice guy. Now he's banned from the securities business and he paid a huge fine and just barely avoided jail. So you say my old coach has a great reputation? There's a side of him I know, and I think he's not very nice at all. And I think I have a duty to inform. You can call me a lot of names, and you can try to diagnose my various maladies, but you will not be able to call me a dweeb.

Guys like me- I'm not trusted, which means I'm always watched, which means if I ever did anything wrong, I'd get caught. You might not like my style, but I'm really not angry about most things. If you really read my posts, you'd be wrong if you thought I didn't find humor in almost everything! I'm not even that angry about my record. I just like to get a rise out of people- so thanks for taking the bait! You can call me a cynic if you like, but I'm also pretty optimistic. You can call me an instigator if you want, but then I'll just say I'm a catalyst. You can call me any kind of name you like, and what am I going to do? Go crying to my closet? You know who I am, and I don't care. I don't know who you are, and what do I care? I totally, totally don't. You could have run 3:28 or 5:00, and I wouldn't care. If you run, I'm happy for you.

I have news for you, 1500m runner: not all runners are just runners.

Hi Skate

45???? NO!!!!

I'm only 41! Please, please don't make me older than I am. Next think I'll be thinking, I'll be, like, 4 years? Am I really 45 and suddenly- like, moments ago when I was 41, I suddenly aged 4 years? Like they never even happened? I set that record as a freshman, under Coach Ron Akin. Speed work every day, baby- that was his style. I didn't run another good 1500m until 1988- after I was well out of college-running and after I'd had two years to get cured of the style Zup had me using. In '88 I trained with Peter Tegen, and he was totally awesome. And totally, totally different from Zup.

In my opinion, regarding Zup coaching me, he didn't know what to do with my speed. Now, modern distance runners on the national and world level, even most good 10,000m runners have sub-50 400 speed. Look how Tegenkamp closes his 5000m's! With my speed, I really should have been a 5,000m or even a 10,000m runner- but for Division 3, Zup didn't know what to do with me- so I was a mile relay anchor/800m/1500m guy. If I'd gone Division 1, and had a better coach, and if Coach Akin hadn't retired (how many what-ifs is that? Am I even still in the same galaxy?) they might have recognized that- I'm sure if Jerry Schumacher was my coach right now (the coach of the 20 year old version- if he'd have me!) would have made me a 5000m runner. Because Division 1, everyone knows that 3:47 and 1:49 doesn't even make nationals. On the other hand, Division 1, I might have not been able to compete at all. I've always been pretty imature- maybe I was just a late bloomer? Have I matured, yet? What kind of motorcycle did I just buy?

As for age-group records? Ach. I'm having way, way too much fun to train! But I'm off for a run right now. You gotta love running, right? I try to get away from it, and it pulls me right back. I try to skip it all together, and next think I'm thinking, I'm running!

well, I can certaintly appreciate the anger - because altering a record is a stupid thing to do.

We could exchange some stories you and I!

I went to a DI college 25 years ago on scholarship, and had probably 10 individual and relay conference titles and at one time had 9 school records between relays and all - and I didn't get a varsity jacket from the school because they didn't give "women" "varsity jackets" until like 1982 when I was a junior - and then they started giving the new female members (younger than us) varsity jackets while we were still at the school - and would not give us varsity jacket because we were grandfathered into the "no varsity jacket club". Pretty f'n dumb eh? That was Bowling Green State University, that was 25 years ago and I'm still pissed off.

Not to mention they took all the female AIAW qualifiers and those that placed at nationals and tossed out their achievements and records because in 1979 we were still AIAW and in 1980 or 81 it went to NCAA. We had one woman who placed in the top 6 at nationals in the 400 hurdles, a 5k finalist and an all-american in x-c...but they of course were AIAW - so they wiped them out of the record books and reserved their deserved hall of fame places for individuals who never even made it to nationals.

I use to do my letter and phone campaigns to get my teammates recognized, but it was useless because the school is a pile of shit.

So, until today, I rarely think of these things anymore because somewhere down the road, it just didn't really matter much and it really made me just plain frustrated and angry to think about it anymore. I guess I know what I achieved and I admire those women who achieved great things before me - that will NEVER get the recognition they deserve.

I can still get my panties in a wad if I think about it but in reality there is only one way to deal with these things......except to.....

let them go......

peace out.

Wow. Bummer. And finally someone who understands!

I think when we're competetive, the nature stays with us. We know what we had to do, and what we had to give up, in order to finish, and in order to win. Every time we win, we also die a little. The people we beat- they think we make it look easy, but in reality, we're just the ones who suffer the most.

And now, to Skate- I was just running and I wanted to make sure you know I was trying to be ironic, but it might have been sounding a little too sarcastic. Sorry about that.

bummer - maybe. Whatever it was - is the way it was meant to be.

Much bigger distasters have followed to me in my last 25 years, and they have a way of melting some of the hostility I have experienced being one of the pioneer women in this sport. I can find you plenty of these stories with women of my age if they were competing in high school and college. I was two time state champion in high school and I was forced to wear an old junior high boy's uniform to compete - why, because I was a girl of course. I have hundreds of these stories and actually when I think about them they sting a bit, but like I said, many tragedies have led to many blessings and before I get too sappy....I breath and do yoga a lot and try to keep soul management - and I slip up sometimes, and deep down I am fiery as they come, but what can you do, except like you said - just laugh about how stupid life is!

You shouldn't feel bad- I had to wear an old boy's uniform, too.

I was just a-thinkin' about somebody's comment that I seem very angry. They must not have read all my posts. Sure, I was angry when Matt Grosse got drunk and called my ex-wife, and I'm not happy about the whole UWO 1500m record saga, but angry in general? How about my post about the cramp in my foot the day a girl just laughed at me and took my money? How about when I was in Bosnia and I didn't run because of the dead guy in the cafe? How about when I was out for a run and decided to swing off a cliff? That was some pretty good stuff, wasn't it? How about when I tried running with a heart-rate monitor? I know there were some pretty darn funny posts in there.

Hey you two, start a new thread. Call it "glory days and bitterness" or something. This is classic hijacking.

MMW:

I don't know you from Adam (or Steve) outside this thread, but I can say unequivocally that I've always read a wry irony into your posts, often with no small amount of self-flagellation. Maybe that's just me. So, no, I can't say I've thought you were angry.

cny wrote:

Hey you two, start a new thread. Call it "glory days and bitterness" or something. This is classic hijacking.

nah, that was a good tantrum on my part last night, but I am on to a new day. The past is the past.

Bitterness is reserved for folks like Woodruff (see article attached on previous post), Reggie Jackson, Jesse Owens, the early Tigerbelles, Doris Brown-Heritage, etc. I am happy to be able just to taste a tiny morsel of discrimination they endured so I can further understand their great stories that inspire me so much.

As for Watch - I think you enjoy the occasional tantrum, then it seems to be out of your system for some time, and yes, you always find a way to laugh at your adventures.

Sorry, cny, but I didn't start it. I was just talking about running and motorcycles and then along comes Biscuit Boy on the attack. But I think Biscuit Boy understands now.

Old Man- sorry if I hijacked anything.