People Overstate Bekele's XC Medals...

Masters Running Masters Training

1 week ago 04/25/2024 9:19am EDT

One of the goat XC athletes of all-time, but his XC totals blur his career in GOAT discussions. In terms of purity, John Ngugi (KEN) and Paul Tergat (KEN) both won 5 World Cross Country Titles. In terms of purity, Kenenisa Bekele (ETH) won 6. If presented the opportunity, it could be argued that Ngugi and Tergat would have dominated short course versions of those races in years they won and they would have 10+ XC Medals.

All-Around GOAT: Haile Gebrselassie (ETH- 27 World Records; 4 x World 10km, 4 x World Indoor; 2 x Olympic 10km, Marathon and Half Marathon WR; WMM Wins; World XC Silver), simply a better 1500m and Marathoner than Berkele.

Cross Country GOAT: Kenenisa Bekele (ETH). Period.

Marathon GOAT: Eliud Kipchoge (KEN). Period.

1 week ago 04/25/2024 9:23am EDT

re: lksqnderson

1 week ago 04/25/2024 9:56am EDT

re: lksqnderson

As a Bekele fan, I honestly agree that short course should not be considered, but even without short course he is the greatest XC runner of all time and of course no doubt the greatest distance runner of all time.

1 week ago 04/25/2024 10:03am EDT

re: Poster

Haile has an argument. Not a great one, but an argument. I don’t think I agree that just because Haile briefly held the marathon WR he is head and shoulders above Bekele, who came within 2 seconds of it.

1 week ago 04/25/2024 10:22am EDT

re: lksqnderson

I definitely would put them both at the top of the GOAT list. What gives the edge to me for Bekele is comparing both athletes "weakest" surfaces. Bekele is weakest on the roads, but even then found success in winning major marathons and coming within 2 seconds of a WR. Geb's weakest surface is XC, which he never won a single world title in. Bekele now gets points for longevity too, setting masters records at nearly 42 and edging out Geb in that category

1 week ago 04/25/2024 10:29am EDT

re: lksqnderson

It's not just that Bekele won all those short course titles; it's that he:

a) won long course and short course on consecutive days
b) was able to go below his best range and still win
c) won both titles every year for five straight years

It's possible to win titles, even several titles, while just being a little bit better than your competitors and having the race play out right. But to do what Bekele did you have to be by far the best cross country runner, every year.

1 week ago 04/25/2024 10:33am EDT

re: automorphic

automorphic wrote:
It's not just that Bekele won all those short course titles; it's that he:
a) won long course and short course on consecutive days
b) was able to go below his best range and still win
c) won both titles every year for five straight years
It's possible to win titles, even several titles, while just being a little bit better than your competitors and having the race play out right. But to do what Bekele did you have to be by far the best cross country runner, every year.

Yeah, I remember one of his Kenyan rivals that he stomped one of those years on day 1 was interviewed as Bekele was stomping his countrymen on day 2 and couldn’t believe it was possible because of how sore he was and not being able to think of racing again on consecutive days. I know that it’s not comparable to other eras but to act like anyone who won long course could’ve just been double champ every year is preposterous.

1 week ago 04/25/2024 10:43am EDT

re: lksqnderson

So the notion is Haile’s 1500m prowess and marginally better (arguably) career on the roads somehow balances the fact that Kenenisa was way better at XC? No chance. Bekele was inarguably the best XC and Track distance runner of his generation whereas Geb was not because he ceded XC to Tergat after a series of losses. That is part of greatness. It’s a veritable ding on any Farah arguments as well.

1 week ago 04/25/2024 10:45am EDT

re: lksqnderson

lksqnderson wrote:
One of the goat XC athletes of all-time, but his XC totals blur his career in GOAT discussions. In terms of purity, John Ngugi (KEN) and Paul Tergat (KEN) both won 5 World Cross Country Titles. In terms of purity, Kenenisa Bekele (ETH) won 6. If presented the opportunity, it could be argued that Ngugi and Tergat would have dominated short course versions of those races in years they won and they would have 10+ XC Medals.
All-Around GOAT: Haile Gebrselassie (ETH- 27 World Records; 4 x World 10km, 4 x World Indoor; 2 x Olympic 10km, Marathon and Half Marathon WR; WMM Wins; World XC Silver), simply a better 1500m and Marathoner than Berkele.
Cross Country GOAT: Kenenisa Bekele (ETH). Period.
Marathon GOAT: Eliud Kipchoge (KEN). Period.

Kipchoge marathon GOAT?? Are you a time traveler from the year 2022 or did you just wake up from a 2 year coma?

1 week ago 04/25/2024 10:51am EDT

re: annoyed track fan

annoyed track fan wrote:
lksqnderson wrote:
One of the goat XC athletes of all-time, but his XC totals blur his career in GOAT discussions. In terms of purity, John Ngugi (KEN) and Paul Tergat (KEN) both won 5 World Cross Country Titles. In terms of purity, Kenenisa Bekele (ETH) won 6. If presented the opportunity, it could be argued that Ngugi and Tergat would have dominated short course versions of those races in years they won and they would have 10+ XC Medals.
All-Around GOAT: Haile Gebrselassie (ETH- 27 World Records; 4 x World 10km, 4 x World Indoor; 2 x Olympic 10km, Marathon and Half Marathon WR; WMM Wins; World XC Silver), simply a better 1500m and Marathoner than Berkele.
Cross Country GOAT: Kenenisa Bekele (ETH). Period.
Marathon GOAT: Eliud Kipchoge (KEN). Period.
Kipchoge marathon GOAT?? Are you a time traveler from the year 2022 or did you just wake up from a 2 year coma?

That wasn’t me, but…What?

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