I used to always endurance-based 800 runners (so anyone aside from a sprinter going up to 800) to just run a 600 as fast as they can and then hang on as best they can for 200 meters. I'd get out just shy of all out for the first 200, settle in for the next 200, then push the last lap.
Probably have but it wouldn't be much faster. Again, I'm usually not thinking about splits in a race and just kind of get out and race, trying to stay fast but relaxed the first lap and then go hunting people down throughout the second lap. I'm sure if I had legit splits I'd see my faster races go out in 59.x or something but, again, it seems I'm always floating in 60-61 range. It's also worth mentioning that I'm running in open heats of college races and there's usually a pretty big pack of college kids and unattached athletes like me hanging out around 58-59 on the first lap so sometimes I get boxed out or stay off pace to stay out of trouble. But I guess that's the kind of trouble I have to get in if I want to take a serious crack at sub 2. Thanks!
Title says it all. I've run plenty of times in the low 2 minutes for 800 but I just can't crack 2. The biggest problem I've been having is getting up in a race comfortably under 60. I try to run a +2 sec positive split as that's what seems to work best for me and what I've heard is good from coaches and faster guys than me. I don't really think about pace/time when racing but it seems lately I end up running the first lap in 60.x or 61 and ending up in that 2:02-2:04 range. I really believe I can crack 2 this year but am wondering if there are some workouts I should be doing to get used to running that first lap a bit faster. Workouts are usually longer reps early in the week and then faster stuff later. 800 pace stuff has been 150s, 200s, and occasional 300s and hitting sub 2 pace for these has been tough but manageable. My longer reps and tempos have been better than ever so I really think the issue is in my speed endurance because I feel really strong and have good basic speed from a sprinting background. Would love some advice or workouts to help crack the 2 minute barrier!
@2:02 you're almost there. Do a 600m time trial on your own in 1:28.
If you can't manage that, then basic speed is the issue.
don't resist the sprint work. it sounds like based on how you describe your finishes, that your endurance is solid. what you need is the speed/strength where that 58 feels more like a jog. you don't get that from being able to hold out close to red line for laps. you get that from getting sufficiently faster that 58 becomes more "joggy" in terms of exertion. which is from sprint work. you hit that bell feeling comfortable then the endurance work will carry you. but that counter-intuitively requires being able to run more like 50-53 such that 58 is somewhat backed off and not near full gas.
and when i say speed work, i don't mean groove out a pace. i mean urgency. i mean burst. i mean drop some gears. get your head down and power through some yards.
to me team sports and jumping sports help with this. like stuff where you have to outsprint someone to a ball or for a chance on goal, or outleap someone for a ball. you sound like you are fit. ironically what you need to work on is the athletic side.
As others have suggested, you need to be faster over that first lap. You really want to be in 58 second shape and not feel like your lungs are about to explode.
Get some 300/400 reps into your training. Work on your opening 150 metres too. You want to run that first 300 hard. No easing off at 200 - attack both bends. This isn’t a distance event. It’s a painfully long sprint.
In terms of breaking the 2 minute mark, get yourself in a fast race and hang on for dear life. You’re not likely to front run it, unless you’re in shape to sail under the time.
Good luck.
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
Title says it all. I've run plenty of times in the low 2 minutes for 800 but I just can't crack 2. The biggest problem I've been having is getting up in a race comfortably under 60. I try to run a +2 sec positive split as that's what seems to work best for me and what I've heard is good from coaches and faster guys than me. I don't really think about pace/time when racing but it seems lately I end up running the first lap in 60.x or 61 and ending up in that 2:02-2:04 range. I really believe I can crack 2 this year but am wondering if there are some workouts I should be doing to get used to running that first lap a bit faster. Workouts are usually longer reps early in the week and then faster stuff later. 800 pace stuff has been 150s, 200s, and occasional 300s and hitting sub 2 pace for these has been tough but manageable. My longer reps and tempos have been better than ever so I really think the issue is in my speed endurance because I feel really strong and have good basic speed from a sprinting background. Would love some advice or workouts to help crack the 2 minute barrier!
Most posters are getting it right here, I think your endurance is probably just fine, what you need is a larger speed reserve to feed off of.
For me, I know i’m in potential sub 2:00 shape when I can run a 200m in 26.5-27 feeling relaxed (feels like i’m just running, not sprinting) and not out of breath. Those are both not very measurable metrics, but the work needed to get there is. When I broke 1:50 I was capable of breaking 23 from a standing or short rolling start over 200m during training. You need some serious short speed to run well in the 800m.
You can break 2:00 off of as slow of an all out 200m race time as 26 seconds, but really unless you’re like a 4:15-4:20 miler already you’ll want to be capable of running more like 24-25 in a 200m. At this point in the season, you should have a dedicated day to doing stuff like 50m flys, 50m from a standing start, and 150s from a running start, all of these at current 400m pace all the way up to 100% maximum sprint effort. This work feels pretty easy mentally to a distance runner but you need to be doing it in order to sprint fast. You aren’t gonna run 53-54 seconds in the 400m and therefor 1:57-2:00 in the 800m by just doing 200m repeats in 29-31 seconds and 400m repeats in 67-68 seconds.
The 800m is categorized as a distance event, but the average everyday persons top speed falls just short of 15 mph AKA 1:59 800m pace. As in most average people can’t break 15 seconds in an all out 100m. 56-58 for 400m is a decent JV time and that’s what you are trying to run the first lap of your 2 lap race in. Most people, runners included would consider that type of speed as sprinting. Therefor you need to be training like a full on sprinter once per week when you are wanting to run that fast in a race, whether it’s for 100m or a mile.
I’m willing to bet you run 55-56 in an all out 400m right now, and if that’s the case, running a 57-58 second first lap is gonna really suck even if you’re like a 15 minute XC guy. 57-58 starts feeling a lot more comfortable when you can split a 52-54 later that day during the 4x4, so the goal should be getting there. The best coach i’ve ever had who also coached me to under 1:50 believes an 800m athlete should start the ideal season in PR mile shape and end the season in PR 400m shape.
Title says it all. I've run plenty of times in the low 2 minutes for 800 but I just can't crack 2. The biggest problem I've been having is getting up in a race comfortably under 60. I try to run a +2 sec positive split as that's what seems to work best for me and what I've heard is good from coaches and faster guys than me. I don't really think about pace/time when racing but it seems lately I end up running the first lap in 60.x or 61 and ending up in that 2:02-2:04 range. I really believe I can crack 2 this year but am wondering if there are some workouts I should be doing to get used to running that first lap a bit faster. Workouts are usually longer reps early in the week and then faster stuff later. 800 pace stuff has been 150s, 200s, and occasional 300s and hitting sub 2 pace for these has been tough but manageable. My longer reps and tempos have been better than ever so I really think the issue is in my speed endurance because I feel really strong and have good basic speed from a sprinting background. Would love some advice or workouts to help crack the 2 minute barrier!
Most posters are getting it right here, I think your endurance is probably just fine, what you need is a larger speed reserve to feed off of.
For me, I know i’m in potential sub 2:00 shape when I can run a 200m in 26.5-27 feeling relaxed (feels like i’m just running, not sprinting) and not out of breath. Those are both not very measurable metrics, but the work needed to get there is. When I broke 1:50 I was capable of breaking 23 from a standing or short rolling start over 200m during training. You need some serious short speed to run well in the 800m.
You can break 2:00 off of as slow of an all out 200m race time as 26 seconds, but really unless you’re like a 4:15-4:20 miler already you’ll want to be capable of running more like 24-25 in a 200m. At this point in the season, you should have a dedicated day to doing stuff like 50m flys, 50m from a standing start, and 150s from a running start, all of these at current 400m pace all the way up to 100% maximum sprint effort. This work feels pretty easy mentally to a distance runner but you need to be doing it in order to sprint fast. You aren’t gonna run 53-54 seconds in the 400m and therefor 1:57-2:00 in the 800m by just doing 200m repeats in 29-31 seconds and 400m repeats in 67-68 seconds.
The 800m is categorized as a distance event, but the average everyday persons top speed falls just short of 15 mph AKA 1:59 800m pace. As in most average people can’t break 15 seconds in an all out 100m. 56-58 for 400m is a decent JV time and that’s what you are trying to run the first lap of your 2 lap race in. Most people, runners included would consider that type of speed as sprinting. Therefor you need to be training like a full on sprinter once per week when you are wanting to run that fast in a race, whether it’s for 100m or a mile.
I’m willing to bet you run 55-56 in an all out 400m right now, and if that’s the case, running a 57-58 second first lap is gonna really suck even if you’re like a 15 minute XC guy. 57-58 starts feeling a lot more comfortable when you can split a 52-54 later that day during the 4x4, so the goal should be getting there. The best coach i’ve ever had who also coached me to under 1:50 believes an 800m athlete should start the ideal season in PR mile shape and end the season in PR 400m shape.
Just checked this and really appreciate the added insight. I think as someone out of high school/college I forget how much my 800 was helped by hopping in the occasional 400 at a duel meet or running 4x 4s. I kind of assumed because my endurance had gotten better I'd just be able to still run fast but I think you're right that I'm doing 29-30s reps but not touching the same kind of top speed. In the short term I'm going to just try being aggressive on the first lap and hope my speed is still there!