Question on 800m training

If you're training for the 800m and want to do 600m repeats, the way I've typically seen them is 2-3 reps at 800m race with 10min+ of rest (full recovery.) They could also appear in some sort of pyramid workout or chunked workout (something like 2x600, 4x300,) in which case it would depend on what else you're doing in the workout.

Thanks

I've always been a fan of 3x(3x300m) 1min/reps, 4-5min/set. Start above race pace and get faster each set. It's brutal.

If you're going to do 400s, I would rec. going slower as to not get anaerobic. 3x3x300 or 2x600@rp will get anaerobic quick. Find a pace somewhere between mile goal pace and current 800 pace

2–3x600m @ 800m pace is damn near impossible. Some very well trained athletes could do 2. I don't know if anyone can do 3.

Here's my understanding -

8 x 600 is at 2 Mile / 3K pace, 60-90 sec rec.

6 x 600 is either a bit faster than the above, or for developing athletes same pace but lower volume.

4 x 600m is at mile / 1500m pace. Use judgment on recovery.

2 x 600m is probably only advisable once or twice, late season during peaking. Done at 800m pace, with 10-15-20 min rest. Extremely taxing.

Thank you

That is true - the 3x600m is more meant to be a race-pace maintenance workout with the intention of forcing turnover while drowning in lactic acid, with the pace being kept for the first two reps but not the last one by design.

Old thread on here has post from Renato Canova talking about early days coaching Marcello Fiasconaro (first man sub 1:44 in 1973) and he did 3x 600 as last big workout before world record. Can't remember exact splits but first two somewhere in low 1:20s. Think rest was like 10 mins and Canova recalled before last rep, he found March submerged in steeple water pit breathing through a reed in attempt to cool off. He told March to go easy but other athlete got pacing wrong and think he broke 1:20 on last rep. Within a week or so he runs 1:43.7. Point is, that workout is killer workout even for peaked and super fit 800 guys. Use with caution!

MoVB

Would you do 2-3x1200m at 1500m/mile race pace?

Some really ridiculous ideas in this thread.

At my D1 program we very rarely did 1x600m @800m race pace and then 3-4 200m reps afterwards. That’s the whole workout and it was a brutal one.

3x600m @ 800m pace is just cruel and unusual, IMO, 600s should usually be done around the upper end of Vo2Max pace and should dip into mile pace very sparingly.

If you need to build race pace endurance, do 5-6x300m @ goal race pace, and the rest time is determined by how fit you are. Earlier in season it may look like 3-4 minutes rest, by the end more like 1:30-2:00 rest. That’s plenty to build 800m specific endurance.

Feel like if you're running a 600 @ 800 pace it's usually just a time trial or starts one of the bigger workouts you assign someone, with some shorter reps afterwards. Maybe world class athletes can come close to doing 2 x 600. Something like 3 x 400 w./ full recovery gets the job done. I've also done 2 x (500, short rest, 300, full rest). That's a killer. Something like 3 x 600 could be done @ mile pace. I've done the same workout as above with 600s @ mile & 300s close to 800. These are tough sessions. Anything like 5-6 x 600 should be around 3k. 8-10 x 600 @ 5k or even slower 600s can basically be 2:00 on/off in a fartlek. Could have them running a bunch of "600s" in base training like that.

Nick Symmonds recommends 3x 400 on long recovery for 800 prediction workout. Avg of three should be about 800 pace. As others mention, these are all pretty peak workouts that have you on your knees most reps so not something you throw in random week in March with tuneup races on horizon.

MoVB

My coach had us do:
1x600 @ 800 pace or a touch slower w/ 10-15 min rest
1x400 @ 800 pace w/ 10-15 min rest
2-3x200 @ 800 pace or a touch faster w/ 2-4 min rest

Pretty much the same thing as your session.

My biggest fear of these workouts is wasting a race effort. I remember I ran something like 1:21, 53, 27, 26, 25. I was hyped up, all signs pointed to sub 1:50. Failed to do it by a lot the next race. I feel like I left it all on the track in that session instead of the race.

We used that session as a rust buster, it would usually happen for the 800 guys a couple weeks out from the first December invite while the rest of the distance squad was either training for or with the postseason XC squad.

I really only think a race pace 600m only needs to happen 1-3 times per year, let alone 1-3 times in a session. You run the hard part of the 800m by the end of the 600m, it really does leave you just about as mentally exhausted.

Our prime year on that team we had 1:47-1:54 guys on the dedicated 800m squad, and I think our fastest guy was running 28.highs for the 200s afterwards. A 600m at 800m race effort is EXHAUSTING.

Made me go look at old thread to confirm and found it was T&F News post by Canova, since quoted on threads I've read on LR. From Canova's og post March went 1:19.6, 10 min rest, 1:19.2, then 10 min rest including a soak in water pit. Seeing how March is suffering, Canova says to call it. It is July 22nd, 1973 and he faces tough race against Slovakia's Plachy in 5 days, so Canova doesn't want him destroyed. But March insists his coach in SA, Stewart Banner, wants him to do 3x 600, so Canova suggests 1:25 to close easy. March has help from Italian 1:51 guy to pace but he goes out ahead of March and March goes to chase, closing it down in 1:18.6 w/ final 300 in 36.4 to catch his rabbit! All this on hot Italian summer day, dirt track, and 5 days before competition. Canova says Stewart Banner had March do 3x 600 regularly before 800 competition, with goal @ 1:21 off 10 min rest. Other workout was 6x 300 in 39 off 3/4 min rest. Insane!

TLDR: if you are not Marcello Fiasconaro, do not go near these workouts!

MoVB

Session last week 1x200 +3x400 all with 6 min rest. Splits 27.1 53.3 53.0 51.9 for athlete

Only use 600m efforts as vo2 efforts or 1500m pace.

Good luck!