No. If i would prescribe a running program for high school students i wud just have them jog or run easy 30 min a day. Building up to twice a day. some days run by feel so they can push it. But keep it simple.
Every other week i might have them do something harder. Maybe a cross country race of say 2-3 miles, a time trial or 3-5 x 1 km at comfortable effort. I wud emphasize long term development and building stamina.
Hi all. A former athlete's dad bought me this book years ago and it wasn't until last summer that I decided to try it. A couple of quick takes:
1. There is nothing in the book about sprinting.
2. I wouldn't follow the plans exactly as written when things don't make sense. For example, I started with the 5k plan. The prescribed paces for let's say an 18:30 5ker has you running 800 meter reps at "race pace or slightly faster", yet the pace prescribed is like sub 5:30 pace with 400 jog. Not terrible but definitely faster than 5k pace. A follow up workout like two weeks later is 3x 1600 repeats at 5:40 pace with 60 rest. Maybe I've gotten soft in my old age but I could not come close to achieving that while I did ok for 800 repeats. The LT paces and distances felt significantly easier than the short reps for me, but I'm also mid 30s.
2. The cross training was a little short. For the 5k plan, most of it was less than 30 minutes with much of it "easy". Example, 26 minutes with 10 minutes warm-up, 2x2:00 hard, 2:00 rest, 10 minutes cooldown. I definitely like cross training for a lot of my recovery training though.
3. Having a general plan of 1 repeat, 1 short tempo, 1 LT, and cross train or make recovery days super easy and short is manageable for a lot of kids. Maybe you save this plan for your first year runners or your freshman coming in rather than varsity runners. Those were usually the kids we found struggled staying healthy running everyday.
If/when I go back to coaching, I plan on using it in some form.
No. If i would prescribe a running program for high school students i wud just have them jog or run easy 30 min a day. Building up to twice a day. some days run by feel so they can push it. But keep it simple.
Every other week i might have them do something harder. Maybe a cross country race of say 2-3 miles, a time trial or 3-5 x 1 km at comfortable effort. I wud emphasize long term development and building stamina.
Your team would suck.
They would never get to doing two a days
they would quit and go play soccer or whatever else.
HS kids don’t have 3 years to get ready to race, they have to be race ready asap
FIRST is a marathon training method. By definition it's not going to be applicable to running track.
thats why I was wondering how to modify it to track. the reason for me wanting to try this approach is because I want more quality workouts and not just running 9 miles and ending up trying to get it done as fast as I can, i want meaningful track workouts that translate to success, as well as recovery days where I can actually RECOVER.
There was a thread like a year ago about easy days. Everyone got it all wrong. Easy days are bullsh"t. Recovery is nonsense. Fitness is all that matters. Eat well. Sleep well. Relax a lot. Work hard. Don't be obssessed with recovery. You will have success
FIRST is a marathon training method. By definition it's not going to be applicable to running track.
Sorry, but FIRST is not a marathon program. I feel like this concept is often misunderstood. It's all about getting consistency in your training and avoiding the risk of injury by prioritizing three purposeful workouts. Everything else like cross training is supplementary but necessary. There is no doubt that the FIRST principles can be applied to all distances. The book includes programs for 5k, 10k, half marathon and marathon. These are suggestions that can be adapted, and I've also made.
An 800m runner would probably train the elements of 400m pace (speed), 800m pace and overdistance on his running days. The additional crosstraining would be in the gym and longer MTB rides in hilly terrain with steep climbs to simulate a longer fartlek.
As I said, Elliot Giles (800m, 1:43) only ran three times a week (no long runs, workouts like 5x300, 15 miles as a total running volume per week) and also said he cross-trained like a beast on the ElliptiGo, which was the main aerobic training and replaced long runs. He thought carefully about which workouts were important. In fact, it requires a lot of discipline.
thats why I was wondering how to modify it to track. the reason for me wanting to try this approach is because I want more quality workouts and not just running 9 miles and ending up trying to get it done as fast as I can, i want meaningful track workouts that translate to success, as well as recovery days where I can actually RECOVER.
this sounds dumb. Recovery < Fitness
there is no point to fitness if you don't recover properly. (face palm)
in no instance should you be pushing your body to max every day in practice and not getting time to recover, this disrupts mesocycles and defeats the purpose of all the practice you're putting in. Fueling the athlete, sleep, diet, muscle recovery, are all just as important as the practice you put in.
I don't think it is suitable for highschool athletes, because you would undertrain them. This is a method for master runners. High-school kids don't need 48 hours recovery...
how would you suggest modifying it too fit a highschool runner, keep in mind a lot of form working will be going on during the summer so the long run is going to disrupt that training.
I don't think it is suitable for highschool athletes, because you would undertrain them. This is a method for master runners. High-school kids don't need 48 hours recovery...
I have the FIRST book. The crosstraining sessions are not easy. You put in surges during the workout, so I would rather call them "hard-ish".
I don't think it is suitable for highschool athletes, because you would undertrain them. This is a method for master runners. High-school kids don't need 48 hours recovery...
No, this is the standard (3+2) and what is recommended for all average runners. The authors even repeatedly encourage to do more in the book if it doesn't jeopardize your goals. For example, on one page there is a 6 day program shown (3+3). This is FIRST+, so to speak.
It is also wrong to claim that you have 48 hours of recovery if cross training takes place immediately the following day. You have 48 hours between running workouts, true, but you can basically train almost every day of the week. Furthermore, you can't make a blanket statement that no high school kid needs 48 hours of recovery or that they are under-challenged with FIRST. There are now world-class results with a 3 + x program. The idea is that you can adapt the concept individually (3 + x means 3 runs and any number of crosstraining sessions). Have you read this thread? Elliot Giles, 800m in 1:43? Do you know Parker Valby?
I don't think it is suitable for highschool athletes, because you would undertrain them. This is a method for master runners. High-school kids don't need 48 hours recovery...
No, this is the standard (3+2) and what is recommended for all average runners. The authors even repeatedly encourage to do more in the book if it doesn't jeopardize your goals. For example, on one page there is a 6 day program shown (3+3). This is FIRST+, so to speak.
It is also wrong to claim that you have 48 hours of recovery if cross training takes place immediately the following day. You have 48 hours between running workouts, true, but you can basically train almost every day of the week. Furthermore, you can't make a blanket statement that no high school kid needs 48 hours of recovery or that they are under-challenged with FIRST. There are now world-class results with a 3 + x program. The idea is that you can adapt the concept individually (3 + x means 3 runs and any number of crosstraining sessions). Have you read this thread? Elliot Giles, 800m in 1:43? Do you know Parker Valby?
Is a program consisting of alternating weeks going (3+x) and (4+x) achievable? At the moment I am doing 6 days a week with 35-40 mpw and taking one complete rest day but would 3 days of running with 20 mpw and then 2-3 cross training days be beneficial?
Wondering if the FIRST method translates to high school track, taking into account what Parker Valby has been doing collegiality, and her training method using cross training. Any ideas for some program like that, specifically for the summer?
I think that what people don't factor in is the volume of quality aerobic work that people like Valby do in cross training. That in itself might be enough to fry a 14 or 15 year old.
I am a big believer in doing as much "B" grade work as possible. It makes for less injury and a linear improvement over the course of a season, which also builds confidence over the season. One A+ "going to the well" workout can lead to season-altering setbacks, which ends up deflating a kids confidence rather than building them up. Plenty of B work with predictor-type workouts like 400 repeats, ladders, and 200's let's the kid see their improvement over the course of weeks and months...then they get to the end of the season uninjured and with more confidence, and if you peaked well, they can rip a couple good races at the end of the season.
It's the best method. Learn how to properly sprint then adjust from there.
Do we tell 13 year old golfers, start playing 72 holes then we'll do some puts at the end of practice.
Do we tell Little League baseball pitchers, pitch 9 innings while throwing plenty of sliders then we'll work on throwing fastball for strikes at end of practice.
Do we tell 13 year old swimmers to start by swimming from Cuba to Key West then at end of practice we'll work on 25 yard freestyle?
Only in U.S., athletes 1600m 3200m, speed is the least priority.
This might be the single dumbest response I have ever seen and that’s saying a lot.
This might be the single dumbest response I have ever seen and that’s saying a lot.
Theres nothing dumb about it.
I second this as being one of the dumbest things I've ever read on the boards. For one thing, teaching fundamentals of sports translates when a kid is growing. Not having a background of work means not succeeding for 99% of md/distance runners. Some kids will shoot up 3 inches and lose all coordination. Where are their sprint mechanics then? They have to be completely relearned.
Side note: you must not have ever coached a slow kid who suddenly becomes fast at 17. The ones who trained strongly throughout become great. The ones who didn't, or joined as upper classmen...you and they will always wonder "what if I had trained for three years?"