This thread was originally titled, "Incredible development in the $612,000 Transcon Goodge run, currently ongoing" but the new title is more descriptive. The description of the run is here.
We thought of a new title for this thread. How about "The Great Trans Con", with a pic of Mr. Goodge in his underpants on the first post? That might get more eyeballs...
Yeah, the difference is that on a normal day he wears a heart rate strap. For multi-day runs he does not as it is too uncomfortable for 12 hour days. It's the watch that is giving very low readings.
When I ride my escooter to work my heart rate regularly sits in the 90-120bpm range - not sure if it's the bouncing causing the issue but it would be a really convenient way to keep moving consistently without running.
I don't believe it's watch muling. Some of those splits are seriously (elite runner level) low HR for that speed. So unless someone in the crew is a recognised elite athlete I highly doubt it.
It's also too high for resting HR (of a fit person). So if he's cheating I'd have to guess cycling very slowly would be only thing making sense.
But to reiterate this guess from me would not prove beyond reasonable doubt (or even close) that there was cheating. The most likely explanation is a faulty HR monitor.
This is frustrating because the point's been made multiple times now. Refer to my post #175 for a v. succinct overview.
Heart rate tech could be 100% inaccurate, this isn't the primary issue. The issue is that inaccuracy is happening on a consistent basis ONLY during Goodge's three events over FOUR years, across multiple bits of tech (with multiple heart rate monitors & GPS), in the exact same, rather unique, way. These discrepancies haven't happened during any of his training runs, nor any of his witnessed runs.
The problem isn't just that it's faulty, it's WHEN it's faulty. This pattern needs to be explained.
Unless Will (the topic creator) is simply wrong.
I'm not saying that there isn't a perfectly reasonable explanation - a quirk of how his teams operate during these runs that explains it. But it needs to be explained.
If we're just going to go through pages of people talking about HR data being inaccurate or faulty HR monitors then this discussion is pointless, and we're all wasting our time.
Fair analysis.
As says is it due to in these events he walks, whereas never duting training (like alot of ultra runners).
Hi all,here's an update on another thread about the British runner William Goodge doing Transcon at the moment and some worrying irregularities.Namely that he runs at 150-170bpm in the first two days of his multidayers, colla...
Does the data seemingly go haywire after the first walking break (so his watch in some way drops to walking HR but then doesn't reclimb back?) I think there are potential reasons for the error (hence I have reasonable doubt he's cheating).
I also don't have evidence beyond reasonable doubt he's not cheating but I don't think onus is on W.Goodge to meet that threshold unless he applies for a world record from it.
Looking at some of stuff I've done 69 miles on a treadmill in sub 12 hours I've got no HR data to back it up (using a Kinomap app and no HR or watch attached). I'd say I can't prove I didn't cheat as I haven't really got any evidence I ran on the treadmill but if I honestly don't believe the onus is on me (innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until proved innocent).
Yeah, the difference is that on a normal day he wears a heart rate strap. For multi-day runs he does not as it is too uncomfortable for 12 hour days. It's the watch that is giving very low readings.
This would 100% give a reasonable explanation for the training Vs racing data discrepancy.
You and my detractors have just chanted at me for a fortnight: tech fail, tech fail, tech fail,
But you have never ONCE acknowledged it's a 2,500k tech fail, spread over 4 years and two continents, at very, very, very, very specific times:
1) An absolutely brutal endurance event, about once every two years, that he has shown no evidence that he has an aptitude for completing, let alone at sub 8s.
2) A clean first 1 or 2 days.
3) An absolute lock on circa 110 average bpm for up to FOURTEEN days straight.
4) Unheard ability to rebound from adversity like a 50k 16hour day at Jogle followed by happy go lucky 80s and 90s for the rest of the way, including a sensational negative split - the first in Jogle history. [And all at 110s, but I'm not allowed to say that.]
5) The event will be unsanctioned and unmonitored but his handler, valet and employee RB is always there.
6) Big charity fundraiser, lots of media, attention, glory and lots of happy sponsors.
At no time, at any stage, has a single one of my detractors said: 'ok, it is indeed a bit of a coincidental set pattern. He is unlucky to keep getting such catastrophic data fails about 800k at a time, always at the same moment in his two year cycle of life...'
Also, what about the development of the last week?!
Me: Errrr, could I see a pulse please guys?
And they show me a pulse, quite a big one that falls off a cliff in the next 3 days.
So I write again: show me a REAL, complete pulse or I'm going to report you to your sponsors and authorities for wire fraud.
They show me a real, complete pulse.
There are two, and only two explanations for this.
1) in the words of Phil Connors in Groundhog Day, "I am a God."
Absolute nonsense. No evidence he's using a chest strap all the time over the last 4 years, and it doesn't address his perfectly clean data on day 1, half of day 2, a lot of day 13 when I gave them a rocket, quite a lot of 14-16, a pretty full 18, and all of day 17 after I said I was going to report them.
So you're saying it's a vv poor piece of equipment that barely works anywhere in the world, whether it be 2019, 2021 or 2023; which is fine on opening days and fine when mad, maggot, clown, saddo gremlins email in from Britain.
Does the watch have an emergency button that puts it into mad maggot on the rampage mode?
This post was edited 37 seconds after it was posted.
I don’t think his HR numbers are that wild if he’s walk/running. Would make sense that it would be different during races if he doesn’t do that during training. Also would make sense that HR would be higher first few days if he’s running more then. I don’t think we’ve seen enough data to make any conclusions..
You and my detractors have just chanted at me for a fortnight: tech fail, tech fail, tech fail,
But you have never ONCE acknowledged it's a 2,500k tech fail, spread over 4 years and two continents, at very, very, very, very specific times:
1) An absolutely brutal endurance event, about once every two years, that he has shown no evidence that he has an aptitude for completing, let alone at sub 8s.
2) A clean first 1 or 2 days.
3) An absolute lock on circa 110 average bpm for up to FOURTEEN days straight.
4) Unheard ability to rebound from adversity like a 50k 16hour day at Jogle followed by happy go lucky 80s and 90s for the rest of the way, including a sensational negative split - the first in Jogle history. [And all at 110s, but I'm not allowed to say that.]
5) The event will be unsanctioned and unmonitored but his handler, valet and employee RB is always there.
6) Big charity fundraiser, lots of media, attention, glory and lots of happy sponsors.
At no time, at any stage, has a single one of my detractors said: 'ok, it is indeed a bit of a coincidental set pattern. He is unlucky to keep getting such catastrophic data fails about 800k at a time, always at the same moment in his two year cycle of life...'
Also, what about the development of the last week?!
Me: Errrr, could I see a pulse please guys?
And they show me a pulse, quite a big one that falls off a cliff in the next 3 days.
So I write again: show me a REAL, complete pulse or I'm going to report you to your sponsors and authorities for wire fraud.
They show me a real, complete pulse.
There are two, and only two explanations for this.
1) in the words of Phil Connors in Groundhog Day, "I am a God."
2) There is something terrible going on.
Standing by for a third option. I'll wait.
Tbf on me at first I thought you might be right but I'm not so stubborn to realise when the evidence isn't there.
You haven't addressed me for calling you out as using a strawman arguement (or apologising for it as I can't see how you can justify it). So let's not be a hypocrite about people not addressing accusations.
The very specific times are the times W.Goodridge walks. All other events ('with clean data') he's ran. It's a easy rational explanation (I'm not saying it's definitely true but gives the reasonable doubt of all the accusations your making aren't proven).
Will, I am starting to wonder if you have ever used a watch with a heart rate monitor. Do you know how it responds when worn loosely or over clothes? Lets say that at the start of a multiday he's got that thing on nice and firm but as the days go by and his body starts to swell a bit he loosens the watch. Maybe he's not obsessed about HR data loke you. He just wants to be comfortable. Then some dude starts harrassing him about the data so he starts sinching that thing tighter again. Doesn't that sound reasonable?
You don't think 110bpm for 5:30k's in a transcon and elsewhere for the last 4 years are that wild? Hundreds and hundreds of times?
His average heart rate for a sub 6 in his career is 154.2
I think we need to see the full data before we can draw a conclusion, not just averages from Strava. I don’t know how Strava calculates those numbers. I know there are options for removing stoppage time etc. so they do some processing.
You don't think 110bpm for 5:30k's in a transcon and elsewhere for the last 4 years are that wild? Hundreds and hundreds of times?
His average heart rate for a sub 6 in his career is 154.2
Yup, the walking hypothesis has one big problem: All of those times when his heart rate went way down, and his running speed went UP rather than DOWN.
Willvic, you should compile a list of those times, you had several in an early data display. Those are what really need explaining.
Goodge and his team should have provided a very detailed explanation for all the discrepancies by now. They should have purchased the finest heart rate monitors in the business. They should have provided their raw data. Instead they just spin out rhetoric and attack their skeptics. Very telling, if you ask me.
I don’t think his HR numbers are that wild if he’s walk/running. Would make sense that it would be different during races if he doesn’t do that during training. Also would make sense that HR would be higher first few days if he’s running more then. I don’t think we’ve seen enough data to make any conclusions..
These irregularities aren't occurring alongside walking pace nor cadence. In fact, according to willvlc's post in this thread, he's frequently posting faster afternoons with these low pulse rates following mornings of clear struggle.
These mornings also match the data you see in his training runs, and they've happened across multiple bits of kit in this very particular way (90-120 BPM HR etc).
There could be something about his approach to races that is simply being overlooked, but it's bizarre that these problems don't occur in the examples provided in post #210 (namely when there are witnesses, and when pressure has been applied for him to show proper data).