Uh-oh. Bill Maher just spoke up on the trans kids debate.

human nature wrote:

Ex L wrote:

I also went to high school in the 80s and we didn't have a single gay kid in our school the 4 years I was there. Any openly gay kids would have been teased mercilessly.

"If this spike in trans children is all biological, why is it regional? Either Ohio is shaming them or California is creating them."

The answer is, Ohio is shaming them.

If you are gay or feel you want to trans but face harsh criticism and shame, you won't come out.

If you are in an area where you will be accepted, you will let your feelings known.

I love how conservatives are loving the Obama donating, Hillary loving, Trump hating atheist Maher.

I don’t know. 29% of gen z self reporting as LBGTQ seems high. I think people greatly underestimate the need for kids to feel special and acknowledged. It is the reverse of shaming in this case. 40 years ago shamming was keeping people in the closet, but when that same thing suddenly becomes cool and desirable there will be a subset of people just looking to increase their status. You have to ignore human nature to believe this doesn’t exist at some level.

Yawn^20 wrote:

lets get real here wrote:

Well then it's a good thing the imaginary scenario you invented doesn't happen. We tell our young impressionable kids they are free to be themselves. They have a gay aunt and attended her gay wedding. They also live with two heterosexual parents and are surrounded by what is still a large majority heterosexual and cis society, so really if there is any pervasive influence it's to be straight and "normal".

I don't know who you think is pushing gayness on children. What a weird thing to think.

If it doesn’t happen then why was everyone so upset that Desantis banned such practices? If it isn’t happening then the law is just useless words right?

the truth is it is happening. You make my own point for me when you say your kid lives in a predominantly straight climate. If you woke up every morning and told your kid they are gay, there is a greater likelihood they will say they are gay. It’s very simple.

lets get real here wrote:

Yawn^20 wrote:

If it doesn’t happen then why was everyone so upset that Desantis banned such practices? If it isn’t happening then the law is just useless words right?

the truth is it is happening. You make my own point for me when you say your kid lives in a predominantly straight climate. If you woke up every morning and told your kid they are gay, there is a greater likelihood they will say they are gay. It’s very simple.

And then the Desantis thing - I actually do think parents should be the ones who teach their kids about sexual orientation and gender identity. But to legislate that educators cannot? Like teachers are supposed to pretend we live in a world where these things don't exist?

Let's be real here, isn't the intent that the Florida GOP doesn't want kids to hear something along the lines of "some people are straight, some people are gay, some people are cis, some people are trans, and all of these people are fine just the way they are". What would be the problem with that? It's weird to pass a law against that.

Yawn^20 wrote:

Precious Roy wrote:

When I was in HS in the 80s, there was only one kid in the entire school who was out of the closet. There were many more who were obviously gay or lesbian but were closeted. Being nonbinary was not even an option back then. Today, the school, which is a private school, has LGBTQ student groups and a chapter of the gay-striaght alliance.

Maher's piece plays into right wing religious extremists views that LGBTQ people are deviants who choose their "lifestyle" much in the same way someone would choose to cheat on their spouse or to watch porn. The idea that children can be "groomed" into becoming LGBTQ is entirely based on the notion that being LGBTQ is a choice that people make and not who they really are.

You really don’t think that if I take a 5 year old boy and tell him he is gay every day for 10 years that he won’t be gay?

You are more delusional or dishonest than I though. I’m just not sure which one it is.

wtfunny wrote:

Yawn^20 wrote:

You really don’t think that if I take a 5 year old boy and tell him he is gay every day for 10 years that he won’t be gay?

You are more delusional or dishonest than I though. I’m just not sure which one it is.

Seriously?

Gay kids all around the world hear about "who they are" and "who they'll be", yet don't grow up to be straight. But you think 👆 this is how things work?

It doesn't matter how many times a young gay child's grandparents ask about how many girl/boy friends she/she has, that child grows up to be grow. But somehow you imagine the opposite is some kind of threat to sexuality?

Who tf do you think is "taking (whatever you mean by this?) a 5 year old boy and telling him he is gay every day for 10 years"?

Interesting look at how many people "identify" as left-handed and how that has changed over the decades since we (largely) stopped punishing them from being left-handed.

Tweet:twitter.com/MDaware/status/15280218298...

Just Another Hobby Jogger wrote:

GD wrote:

You dismiss Maher for his crack about having once wanted to be a pirate, but that doesn't discredit his point: identity exploration is a normal part of childhood and adolescence. The argument that children know that they're trans is completely out of step with knowledge about child development. Imagine somebody locking you into a childhood identification for the rest of your life. Historically, most children with gender identity issues were found to outgrow the conviction that they were born the wrong sex; many went on to identify as gay or lesbian. Treating this early cross-sex identificaiton as a fixed trait rather than a child's way of making sense of their own gender nonconformity and nascent homosexuality amounts to "transing the gay away." This is medical experimentation on would-be gay kids, kids with mental health problems, trauma survivors, and females who are dealing with normal pubertal discomfort.

So where is the peer reviewed research to back up this claim that most children with gender dysphoria grow out of it?

Dr Bakker says, “Although more research is needed, we now have evidence that sexual
differentiation of the brain differs in young people with GD, as they show functional brain
characteristics that are typical of their desired gender.”

Link:www.ese-hormones.org/media/1506/transg...

Just Another Hobby Jogger wrote:

GD wrote:

You dismiss Maher for his crack about having once wanted to be a pirate, but that doesn't discredit his point: identity exploration is a normal part of childhood and adolescence. The argument that children know that they're trans is completely out of step with knowledge about child development. Imagine somebody locking you into a childhood identification for the rest of your life. Historically, most children with gender identity issues were found to outgrow the conviction that they were born the wrong sex; many went on to identify as gay or lesbian. Treating this early cross-sex identificaiton as a fixed trait rather than a child's way of making sense of their own gender nonconformity and nascent homosexuality amounts to "transing the gay away." This is medical experimentation on would-be gay kids, kids with mental health problems, trauma survivors, and females who are dealing with normal pubertal discomfort.

So where is the peer reviewed research to back up this claim that most children with gender dysphoria grow out of it?

Dr Bakker says, “Although more research is needed, we now have evidence that sexual
differentiation of the brain differs in young people with GD, as they show functional brain
characteristics that are typical of their desired gender.”

Link:www.ese-hormones.org/media/1506/transg...

Ex L wrote:

human nature wrote:

You believe that kids will pretend to be straight to avoid shaming, but will not pretend otherwise to be accepted and have higher status? That is like thinking only punishment motivates people to do things.

It is hard for you to understand as you don’t live in the world where your peers think it is so amazing and interesting and have forgotten how important it was to fit in and be liked at that age.

I don't think being gay or trans gives anyone a higher status or an advantage anywhere.

It may be more accepted in some places than others, but it is still a harder life to lead.

Yes, gay people today still often live in the closet.

Janelle Monáe only recently came out as nonbinary and has been famous for years. Many celebrities and now some athletes have come out after being famous for years.

We know for sure that people fake being straight all the time.

Faking the other way to be cool? I need more evidence.