Shelby Houlihan Ban Upheld -- Loses Appeal

Armstronglivs wrote:

Wise Old Man wrote:

Herein lies the problem. If we want to get serious about lessening doping, dopers also should also be subjected to civil penalties and even criminal investigation and prosecution. If a pro receives money in exchange for performance, then doping is a criminal act. The rigors of the investigations and the severity of the penalties need to be increased. I’m not saying that doping by oneself necessarily be a class A felony, but it should be acknowledged as a crime with true fraud and real victims.

If it were categorised as a crime the standard of proof would change and it would be virtually impossible to obtain a conviction, because of the difficulty of proving intent in such cases.

Armstronglivs wrote:

If it were categorised as a crime the standard of proof would change and it would be virtually impossible to obtain a conviction, because of the difficulty of proving intent in such cases.

brojo hater wrote:

This whole post is a bit self righteous. She doesn't respect the sport? What a load of crap. You got a whole lot of unnecessary anger aimed at someone who likely made an ethically bad choice and had her life upended and her dreams ruined. Frankly it is less offensive than so many things said every day on these message boards.

If you had to choose between a doping banned houlihan or the brojos for a friend, I'm taking houlihan as a friend, no contest.

Wise Old Man wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

If it were categorised as a crime the standard of proof would change and it would be virtually impossible to obtain a conviction, because of the difficulty of proving intent in such cases.

Also, intent is not required to prove a crime, though intent may impact the type of charge or mitigate the sentence.

Armstronglivs wrote:

Most crimes require proof of intent. Typically, only minor offences (traffic) don't.

Wise Old Man wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

If it were categorised as a crime the standard of proof would change and it would be virtually impossible to obtain a conviction, because of the difficulty of proving intent in such cases.

Also, intent is not required to prove a crime, though intent may impact the type of charge or mitigate the sentence.

Wise Old Man wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

If it were categorised as a crime the standard of proof would change and it would be virtually impossible to obtain a conviction, because of the difficulty of proving intent in such cases.

You can do both. The sport can ban them with a lower burden of proof and there can be a threat of criminal prosecution as both a deterrent and as a means of providing a more fulsome investigation even if charges are not brought. What do you think would happen if the FBI interviewed Shelby and the BTC athletes and coaches? Oh, I think there would be a lot less lying. These are “soft” people when it crimes to true crime. A federal prosecutor might decline to bother with a case like Shelby’s, but the investigatory findings can still be provided to WADA or USADA.

Pigy farmer wrote:

Wise Old Man wrote:

Also, intent is not required to prove a crime, though intent may impact the type of charge or mitigate the sentence.

what what does” prove a crime” mean?

Pigy farmer wrote:

Your last sentence.

I don’t disagree but can you give more detail.

And is this the case in other countries?

I mean.. wrote:

Shelby continues to insist that she was a victim of an unfair/unjust "system." Can someone here tell me what she means by that?

Is it that she is trying to say there should be some sort of provision of a lesser punishment (or even some sort of waiver lol) for a positive test, but that the drug got into the system without the athlete's knowledge or mistakenly?

This is laughable, and if that was what she was trying to propose, she would ALSO be saying that the Russian athletes who were part of systemic doping on the organizational/national level should have been able to compete. I mean. Come on.

BowermanBRO wrote:

Jonathan Gault has written a story that includes some new quotes from Shelby.

Link:www.letsrun.com/news/2022/05/shelby-ho...

Wise Old Man wrote:

Pigy farmer wrote:

Your last sentence.

I don’t disagree but can you give more detail.

And is this the case in other countries?

If you want details, read the attachment.

Link:www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/h...

It’s a federal crime to dope in sports anywhere in the world if any US person or entity is a party to the competition. Under ideal circumstances the investigation would be done in concert with WADA. WADA did oppose the enactment of this law, but this was politics.

BowermanBRO wrote:

Shelby just posted on Instagram:

"(...) Up until this point, I had been advised to lay low and not say or do anything in order to not jeopardize my appeal process. I think this was best because I also wasn’t ready to talk about it. I needed time for myself to process everything that’s happened and to start working on how to move forward. I appreciate people being understanding and giving me the space for that."