It will be interesting to see what happens to New York City HS athletes this year. Every public school athlete needs to be vaccinated in order to participate in any sport whether it be cross country or bowling. Plenty of data will be available.
It will be interesting to see what happens to New York City HS athletes this year. Every public school athlete needs to be vaccinated in order to participate in any sport whether it be cross country or bowling. Plenty of data will be available.
joobiden wrote:
Liberal male logic: I let another man do me in the butt and didn't get AIDS so it was worth doing.
They use the same logic when it comes to vaccines.
This makes no sense whatsoever but I must admit I got a chuckle out of it
The OP is right, and the experts know it. The public health authorities are once again refusing to tell the truth because they think people can't handle it. The concern is that admitting that the (small) vaccine risk for young males is greater than the (also small) COVID risk for young will further undermine confidence in the vaccines broadly. But what actually undermines confidence in experts is when they repeatedly get caught lying and NOT following the science.
BTW, I'm far from an antivaxxer. I traveled a very long ways to get J&J as soon as I could, and I've since gotten a double dose of Moderna. But I'm in my 30s and I have friends and family in their 70s and 80s who I like to see.
GuestUser2017 wrote:
Vax Romana wrote:
It really isn't complicated. And comparison to childhood vaccines is relevant, since there are noted risks with everything, and recommendations/requirements take those into account—and the benefits far outweigh risks for childhood vaccines (which nearly everyone accepts) and the covid vaccines. If you really think the risks of the vaccine are anywhere near the risks of the illness, even for high school kids, you are suffering under severe bias or irrational fear or biased, misinformed news consumption.
However, I would appreciate you listing a few examples of these vaccines with noted risks if you're going to use that point. I'm sincerely not aware of similar discussion surrounding other popular vaccines for children and teens; maybe, I'm too young to recall if/when those discussions happened.
You mean other than autism? Just kidding.
MMR, for example, febrile seizures and low platelet counts.
It’s logically hard to square why the COVID vax is being treated so differently from other than vaccines—yeah know, other than because self-interested chides are hoping to benefit from spreading misinformation and causing discord. Divide and conquer—and get a bigger contract/get re-elected.
nearest hippie wrote:
This is going to sound bad but I could not care less:
I am not risking my young son's life to prolong the lives of the elderly. It is not his responsibility to risk a heart attack in order to not "make himself a carrier." Any elderly and/or immunocompromised person who thinks little kids and teenagers have a responsibility to risk heart attacks for them can go pound sand. I seriously do not care about the elderly at all, and the idea that I should is offensive to me. I care about KIDS and YOUNG PEOPLE. Any civilized society would prioritize the young.
Agree. I’d really love some evidence on how someone with NO symptoms can spread a disease???? Since when is this true EVER?
VAERS is NOT reporting all the adverse cases, it’s estimated to be in the millions not thousands. You guys love to throw around fictitious stats so this stat I just threw is no less accurate. And Flagpole go fuc$ off 🖕🖕
Watch all the videos of people getting paralysis. It’s all made up right?
The Only thing made up is COVID. It’s a flu you sheep!
GuestUser2017 wrote:
Flagpole wrote:
COVID can wreck a person's body, even young people, even if they don't die. All of the very rare possibilities with regard to the vaccine are MUCH more common to happen if you actually are infected with COVID while unvaccinated. If you are a teenage athlete, or even just a person who wants to be fit and active the rest of your life, you really don't want to get COVID.
Generally, that's probably right. Severe covid complications are a bigger risk than severe vaccine complications for most groups. The referenced study suggests that is not the case specifically for male adolescents though. That was the point being made by OP.
Nope...it is still the case for male adolescents.
nearest hippie wrote:
This is going to sound bad but I could not care less:
I am not risking my young son's life to prolong the lives of the elderly. It is not his responsibility to risk a heart attack in order to not "make himself a carrier." Any elderly and/or immunocompromised person who thinks little kids and teenagers have a responsibility to risk heart attacks for them can go pound sand. I seriously do not care about the elderly at all, and the idea that I should is offensive to me. I care about KIDS and YOUNG PEOPLE. Any civilized society would prioritize the young.
No, it doesn't sound bad. What it sounds like and IS is moronic. Fine if you want to be selfish and not give a shi!t about others, but the selfish answer is to get him vaccinated. People of all ages are susceptible to really bad effects of having COVID while unvaccinated. And, you anti-vaxxer morons talk about the unknown long-term effects of the vaccines, but the REAL problem is what might be the long-term effects of having COVID. Viruses do some nasty shi!t and can come back to bite you later (see chickenpox/shingles). We know that vaccines typically don't show any issue beyond 6 months, and there is not reason to believe these COVID vaccines are any different, AND IF you are so moronic that you don't trust the mRNA ones, you can go get the Johnson & Johnson vector one.
Also, your idea that just the elderly are susceptible to dying is incorrect. Tons of middle-aged people have died of this virus...people with families...people who would have lived for decades more.
You are risking your young son's life (either a death or debilitating heath issues) by not getting him vaccinated.
Flagpole wrote:
Yeah, you are wrong.
COVID can wreck a person's body, even young people, even if they don't die. All of the very rare possibilities with regard to the vaccine are MUCH more common to happen if you actually are infected with COVID while unvaccinated. If you are a teenage athlete, or even just a person who wants to be fit and active the rest of your life, you really don't want to get COVID.
This^ is enough right there to get vaccinated, but when then you just make yourself a carrier to others who are vulnerable -- younger children who still can't get vaccinated, immunocompromised people, people who are allergic to ingredients of the vaccines -- we just add another layer. And YES a vaccinated person can contract and pass on the coronavirus, but it is MUCH less likely.
^Fearmonger. Let’s stick a kid that has no risk, and give him risk. Makes sense. Long as it’s not your kid I suppose
Dime a dozen "experts" wrote:
Read the report. So what? It's just a report of one "expert".
Get the vaccine. That's everyone, including HS boys.
Oh, and you're wrong.
Get my black bozak...son.
Flagpole wrote:
nearest hippie wrote:
This is going to sound bad but I could not care less:
I am not risking my young son's life to prolong the lives of the elderly. It is not his responsibility to risk a heart attack in order to not "make himself a carrier." Any elderly and/or immunocompromised person who thinks little kids and teenagers have a responsibility to risk heart attacks for them can go pound sand. I seriously do not care about the elderly at all, and the idea that I should is offensive to me. I care about KIDS and YOUNG PEOPLE. Any civilized society would prioritize the young.
No, it doesn't sound bad. What it sounds like and IS is moronic. Fine if you want to be selfish and not give a shi!t about others, but the selfish answer is to get him vaccinated. People of all ages are susceptible to really bad effects of having COVID while unvaccinated. And, you anti-vaxxer morons talk about the unknown long-term effects of the vaccines, but the REAL problem is what might be the long-term effects of having COVID. Viruses do some nasty shi!t and can come back to bite you later (see chickenpox/shingles). We know that vaccines typically don't show any issue beyond 6 months, and there is not reason to believe these COVID vaccines are any different, AND IF you are so moronic that you don't trust the mRNA ones, you can go get the Johnson & Johnson vector one.
Also, your idea that just the elderly are susceptible to dying is incorrect. Tons of middle-aged people have died of this virus...people with families...people who would have lived for decades more.
You are risking your young son's life (either a death or debilitating heath issues) by not getting him vaccinated.
People inoculated against Covid-19 are just as likely to spread the delta variant of the virus to contacts in their household as those who haven’t had shots, according to new research.
In a yearlong study of 621 people in the U.K. with mild Covid-19, scientists found that their peak viral load was similar regardless of vaccination status, according to a paper published Thursday in The Lancet Infectious Diseases medical journal.
https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/uk-study-finds-vaccinated-people-easily-transmit-delta-variant-households-2021-10-28/Noyankee wrote:
Flagpole wrote:
Yeah, you are wrong.
COVID can wreck a person's body, even young people, even if they don't die. All of the very rare possibilities with regard to the vaccine are MUCH more common to happen if you actually are infected with COVID while unvaccinated. If you are a teenage athlete, or even just a person who wants to be fit and active the rest of your life, you really don't want to get COVID.
This^ is enough right there to get vaccinated, but when then you just make yourself a carrier to others who are vulnerable -- younger children who still can't get vaccinated, immunocompromised people, people who are allergic to ingredients of the vaccines -- we just add another layer. And YES a vaccinated person can contract and pass on the coronavirus, but it is MUCH less likely.
^Fearmonger. Let’s stick a kid that has no risk, and give him risk. Makes sense. Long as it’s not your kid I suppose
Nope...the kid DOES have a risk. My kids are adults (who both elected to get vaccinated), but if they weren't, they'd be getting the vaccine under my watch as their parent.
DanM wrote:
Flagpole wrote:
No, it doesn't sound bad. What it sounds like and IS is moronic. Fine if you want to be selfish and not give a shi!t about others, but the selfish answer is to get him vaccinated. People of all ages are susceptible to really bad effects of having COVID while unvaccinated. And, you anti-vaxxer morons talk about the unknown long-term effects of the vaccines, but the REAL problem is what might be the long-term effects of having COVID. Viruses do some nasty shi!t and can come back to bite you later (see chickenpox/shingles). We know that vaccines typically don't show any issue beyond 6 months, and there is not reason to believe these COVID vaccines are any different, AND IF you are so moronic that you don't trust the mRNA ones, you can go get the Johnson & Johnson vector one.
Also, your idea that just the elderly are susceptible to dying is incorrect. Tons of middle-aged people have died of this virus...people with families...people who would have lived for decades more.
You are risking your young son's life (either a death or debilitating heath issues) by not getting him vaccinated.
People inoculated against Covid-19 are just as likely to spread the delta variant of the virus to contacts in their household as those who haven’t had shots, according to new research.
In a yearlong study of 621 people in the U.K. with mild Covid-19, scientists found that their peak viral load was similar regardless of vaccination status, according to a paper published Thursday in The Lancet Infectious Diseases medical journal.
https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/uk-study-finds-vaccinated-people-easily-transmit-delta-variant-households-2021-10-28/
Dan,
That is simply not true.
Let's look at the VERY FIRST sentence of the article you linked:
"The Delta coronavirus variant can transmit easily from vaccinated people to their household contacts, a British study found on Thursday, although contacts were less likely to get infected if they were vaccinated themselves."
Also - "The researchers underlined that did not weaken the argument for vaccination as the best way of reducing serious illness from COVID-19 and said booster shots were required.
They found infections in the vaccinated cleared more quickly, but the peak viral load remained similar to the unvaccinated."
Finally, I counter your article with this;
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/vaccinated-people-are-less-likely-spread-covid-new-research-finds-n1280583Do you read CDC guidelines?
The guidelines are that everyone who can should get vaccinated, and NO, it's not a conspiracy or a way to control people or for Big Pharma to make money unwarranted or any nonsense like that.
Get vaccinated, people. Quit being morons.
Flagpole wrote:
GuestUser2017 wrote:
Generally, that's probably right. Severe covid complications are a bigger risk than severe vaccine complications for most groups. The referenced study suggests that is not the case specifically for male adolescents though. That was the point being made by OP.
Nope...it is still the case for male adolescents.
How do you know that? If you're going to refute a study, which is totally fair to do, we need more than one sentence lacking any supporting information.
GuestUser2017 wrote:
Flagpole wrote:
Nope...it is still the case for male adolescents.
How do you know that? If you're going to refute a study, which is totally fair to do, we need more than one sentence lacking any supporting information.
1) ANY "study" that references VAERS is invalid as VAERS is extremely flawed...a self-reporting system. Good for potentially seeing trends and thus requiring further investigation, but completely useless as data in any study.
2) The CDC says this regarding myocarditis - "Should I Still Get Myself or My Child Vaccinated?
Yes. CDC continues to recommend that everyone aged 12 years and older get vaccinated for COVID-19. The known risks of COVID-19 illness and its related, possibly severe complications, such as long-term health problems, hospitalization, and even death, far outweigh the potential risks of having a rare adverse reaction to vaccination, including the possible risk of myocarditis or pericarditis.
If you or your child has already gotten the first dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna vaccine, it’s important to get the second dose unless a vaccination provider or your doctor tells you not to get it.
If you have concerns about COVID-19 vaccination, talk with your or your child’s doctor, nurse, or clinic."
3) One of the health risks of getting COVID is...gasp!...MYOCARDITIS!
4) Also, this risk with the vaccine is just something that the anti-vaxxers can scream about, but it is rare and it isn't killing anyone. Here's what the CDC says about the very rare occurrence of myocarditis due to a vaccine - "Most patients with myocarditis or pericarditis who received care responded well to medicine and rest and felt better quickly.
Patients can usually return to their normal daily activities after their symptoms improve. Those who have been diagnosed with myocarditis should consult with their cardiologist (heart doctor) about return to exercise or sports."
The OP is comparing the chances of two different pools of teens.
Pool 1: "averaging together all high school/middle school boys who get vaccinated about 100 out of 1 million have to go to the hospital".
Pool 2: Risks of covid when NOT vaccinated are hospitalization rate of about 44 out of 1 million for teen boys who don't have asthma and not obese (20% are obese, 10% have asthma.
I can not make a determination based on two different pools. Are unhealthy subjects causing the higher hospital rate among the vaccinated? I don't know. No one can determine that based on the data supplied. Another question I have but haven't found data to answer is the number of teen boys having heart issues from Covid. I've heard of cases but haven't found figures.
I don't have answers but I do believe the long term effects of Covid on some athletes can be brutal. If you have access to HBO, check out the story on Real Sports about young athletes and Covid from this summer.
Flagpole wrote:
GuestUser2017 wrote:
How do you know that? If you're going to refute a study, which is totally fair to do, we need more than one sentence lacking any supporting information.
1) ANY "study" that references VAERS is invalid as VAERS is extremely flawed...a self-reporting system. Good for potentially seeing trends and thus requiring further investigation, but completely useless as data in any study.
2) The CDC says this regarding myocarditis - "Should I Still Get Myself or My Child Vaccinated?
Yes. CDC continues to recommend that everyone aged 12 years and older get vaccinated for COVID-19. The known risks of COVID-19 illness and its related, possibly severe complications, such as long-term health problems, hospitalization, and even death, far outweigh the potential risks of having a rare adverse reaction to vaccination, including the possible risk of myocarditis or pericarditis.
If you or your child has already gotten the first dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna vaccine, it’s important to get the second dose unless a vaccination provider or your doctor tells you not to get it.
If you have concerns about COVID-19 vaccination, talk with your or your child’s doctor, nurse, or clinic."
3) One of the health risks of getting COVID is...gasp!...MYOCARDITIS!
4) Also, this risk with the vaccine is just something that the anti-vaxxers can scream about, but it is rare and it isn't killing anyone. Here's what the CDC says about the very rare occurrence of myocarditis due to a vaccine - "Most patients with myocarditis or pericarditis who received care responded well to medicine and rest and felt better quickly.
Patients can usually return to their normal daily activities after their symptoms improve. Those who have been diagnosed with myocarditis should consult with their cardiologist (heart doctor) about return to exercise or sports."
Okay, thanks for clarifying your perspective. I could see parents choosing either way whether or not to vaccinate their teenager given that risk of complications due to covid or vaccination are both exceedingly low for teenagers, and all the vulnerable populations have had opportunity to get vaccinated. I suppose we'll get quite a bit more data on the topic over the next few months as more teenagers are getting the shot.
....... wrote:
The OP is comparing the chances of two different pools of teens.
Pool 1: "averaging together all high school/middle school boys who get vaccinated about 100 out of 1 million have to go to the hospital".
Pool 2: Risks of covid when NOT vaccinated are hospitalization rate of about 44 out of 1 million for teen boys who don't have asthma and not obese (20% are obese, 10% have asthma.
I can not make a determination based on two different pools. Are unhealthy subjects causing the higher hospital rate among the vaccinated? I don't know. No one can determine that based on the data supplied. Another question I have but haven't found data to answer is the number of teen boys having heart issues from Covid. I've heard of cases but haven't found figures.
I don't have answers but I do believe the long term effects of Covid on some athletes can be brutal. If you have access to HBO, check out the story on Real Sports about young athletes and Covid from this summer.
I'm waiting for anecdotes and later perhaps evidence from NYC public school athletes who have to be vaccinated to participate in any sport.
joed|rt wrote:
How are we even still debating this? We are almost two years in and excess deaths and hospitalizations among those 25 and under are still at or below historic averages for this demographic. It hasn't mattered which variant has come and gone, it hasn't matter whether kids were masked, unmasked, or otherwise. I talked to my doctor about this the other day. Basically he felt there was no compelling medical evidence that supported kids getting vaccinated. They should run titers on kids before they vaccinate them, because many likely already have antibodies, which are more effective than vaccination anyhow. The kids with antibodies are the ones most likely to have an adverse reaction to the shot. School districts mandating these vaccines in kids are putting kids at risk, more so than COVID itself.
Your doctor is correct and so are you. Antibody or T cell tests to see who already has nascent immunity, which is most in this demographic. Mandated flu shots are coming. Already starting in some colleges. Idiots abound.
nearest hippie wrote:
This is going to sound bad but I could not care less:
I am not risking my young son's life to prolong the lives of the elderly. It is not his responsibility to risk a heart attack in order to not "make himself a carrier." Any elderly and/or immunocompromised person who thinks little kids and teenagers have a responsibility to risk heart attacks for them can go pound sand. I seriously do not care about the elderly at all, and the idea that I should is offensive to me. I care about KIDS and YOUNG PEOPLE. Any civilized society would prioritize the young.
I only care about kids and healthy people in their reproductive years. I do not care about people who are immunocompromised. Most of them are due to rare diseases that are hereditary. We do not want people who have hereditary diseases procreating for the collective good of our species. They are the legitimate definition of a beta. The process that brought us to become apex predators would weed them out.
You're not prolonging the lives of the elderly with this "vaccine", it does not prevent infection or transmission. Anyone who gets this nowadays is insane. always comical seeing obese people with masks on by themselves in the drivethru of McDonald's with a badge that says "im vaccinated". If they really cared about doing their part to end a global pandemic, they would start running and never eat McDonald's again. I should not be laughing at them and it should make me sad how dumb people are.
I love this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIwNkfg-njwThey don't even answer his question at 30 seconds.
Tell me if I'm wrong wrote:
I'm vaccinated, I'm 28 years old. The vaccine kicked my butt. But tell me if I'm wrong in saying high school boys shouldn't get vaccinated, because they are more likely to have a worse reaction to the vaccine than have a severe case of COVID. Don't tell me I'm wrong without reading what I have to say below and reading the report I've put at the bottom. I'm pulling these numbers from this report, tell me if they are not real numbers. They seem pretty real to me.
Summary, 162 out of 1 million boys age 12-15 who get vaccinated have cardiac/myocarditis adverse events (heart inflammation or similar). For boys age 16-17 it's 94 per 1 million. The hospitalization rate for these adverse events is extremely high at 95%. So basically averaging together all high school/middle school boys who get vaccinated about 100 out of 1 million have to go to the hospital because of heart issues within a few days after vaccination.
Risks of covid when NOT vaccinated are hospitalization rate of about 44 out of 1 million for teen boys who don't have asthma and not obese (20% are obese, 10% have asthma, so about 3/4 of high school boys fit into this risk of a hospitalization rate of 44 out of 1 million).
This means middle school and high school boys are twice as likely to be hospitalized from the vaccine than from covid. For girls the vaccine is much safer, where covid is twice as likely to lead to hospitalization than the vaccine.
If I'm wrong go ahead and prove with data that these are not real numbers and present me with a study that has 'real numbers'. But I've seen in multiple places that young males are much more likely to have heart problems from the vaccine, young people in general do not have severe cases of covid. And this report brings it all together.
If I had a high school son who ran cross country/track and obviously isn't obese and also doesn't have asthma, I would not have him get the vaccine. It's more likely to ruin his running career than covid.
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210913/The-rate-of-vaccine-induced-heart-inflammation-in-children.aspx
Umm. Yes! Please follow the science and not Fox News. This is getting nauseating.