Raes Take: FBI showed up to an agent's AND coach's house...

WADA ya think? wrote:

Sprintgeezer wrote:

Rae is a simple guy. He is enthusiastic, but innocent.

He plays the same character we see everywhere—they see it all as a game, and nothing more. He mistakes wishes and prejudices for axioms.

I can’t impress upon you how embarrassing the sprint world has become. Whoever first applied the term “clown world” hit the nail on the head.

Is squaring the circle an axiom or a postulate?

Lolol

This is the kind of thing I live about this place. Took me right back to my 1st year agebra, where we spent the first few weeks on axioms and proofs! Like proving 1x0=0, etc. Was great stuff. Got confused a bit back then, but I eventually began to understand the logical operations. Holy crap that was a long time ago.

Here’s a simple page for those who don’t know what I’m talking about:

The answer, of course, is neither. It started out as a wish, then was formulated as a problem.

Sprintgeezer wrote:

The answer, of course, is neither. It started out as a wish, then was formulated as a problem.

Now apply that to the PED concept?

Regarding this possible case, I said here many years ago that a place in Florida was the nexus, the convergence and confusion of therapeutics and athletics. More recently I have said that the southern US had become the newest, and greatest, frontier.

We will see what, if anything, comes of this. It is a big and complicated edifice, some of it with lots of local political influence. Don’t expect any deep digging, it absolutely will not happen. Yes there could be a few sacrificial lambs, but they will be from the margins.

I leave that to you to figure out. I don’t reveal all of my work. Ideally I would like others to strike out on their own, and see if their unique paths lead to the same destination as my own.

My comments are intended only to provoke thought about the issue, without revealing enough to contaminate individuality.

Sprintgeezer wrote:

I leave that to you to figure out. I don’t reveal all of my work. Ideally I would like others to strike out on their own, and see if their unique paths lead to the same destination as my own.

My comments are intended only to provoke thought about the issue, without revealing enough to contaminate individuality.

No, that's a cop out. The coward's way out. You act brave, but in the heat of combat, you choke.

Sprintgeezer wrote:

My comments are intended only to provoke thought about the issue, without revealing enough to contaminate individuality.

Referring to Bolt as Dolt was meant to provoke thought? Or just to provoke? Bolt may very well be a the dirtiest of all the sprinters and it may come out one day that he had been using PEDs the entire time, but why the play on words and call him stupid? He did a lot to bring positive attention to track and field, and he was and remains a quality human being to boot.

I thought you had something going.

Apparently I was wrong

Now that your bluff has been called you lash out.

And that is what I dislike about this place.

For my own edification, can you describe yourself, honestly? I will make no comment on any such information.

I referred to only my most recent post in this thread.

But yes, the 3 stooges are still Dolt, Fowell, and Flake.

Lololol I just saw that you described this as “combat”!

There you go. To me, it was only discussion.

As in others, I am done in this thread. It deteriorated pretty quickly.

Awsi Dooger wrote:

wejo wrote:

He said the other person talking isn't an American but is talking about an American coaches and agents. The only other person I can think of busted was Blessing Okabare.

That would fit his narrative.

Since it happened in Switzerland I was thinking of Alex Wilson, the Swiss sprinter. Not high profile, and I'm not sure what connections he has, but he was busted this spring in the United States and used the tainted meat excuse. I know he was really ticked off given the way everything unfolded. The Swiss federation stepped in to reverse the ban and Wilson thought he would be able to compete in Tokyo. Then literally days before the track and field competition began the CAS stepped in and immediately reinstated the ban.

What happened in Switzerland?

Who is Wilson's coach? He is a big possibility.

Sprintgeezer wrote:

I thought you had something going.

Apparently I was wrong

Now that your bluff has been called you lash out.

And that is what I dislike about this place.

For my own edification, can you describe yourself, honestly? I will make no comment on any such information.

I do have something going, but you can't face it.

Can I describe myself honestly? Yes, I ran very well, close to my genetic limit. I don't pretend that drugs would have made me faster. You do. That is your lack of honesty. I have explained this enough times to you, but you cop out every time.

wejo wrote:

What happened in Switzerland?

Who is Wilson's coach? He is a big possibility.

Raymond Stewart is his coach according to a quick Google.

FartKing69 wrote:

wejo wrote:

What happened in Switzerland?

Who is Wilson's coach? He is a big possibility.

Raymond Stewart is his coach according to a quick Google.

https://gettotext.com/very-shaky-100-meter-record-the-mysterious-fabulous-time-of-alex-wilson/

I misread, Stewart is not his coach, but he was seen with Stewart. Stewart is banned for life.

wejo wrote:

Awsi Dooger wrote:

Since it happened in Switzerland I was thinking of Alex Wilson, the Swiss sprinter. Not high profile, and I'm not sure what connections he has, but he was busted this spring in the United States and used the tainted meat excuse. I know he was really ticked off given the way everything unfolded. The Swiss federation stepped in to reverse the ban and Wilson thought he would be able to compete in Tokyo. Then literally days before the track and field competition began the CAS stepped in and immediately reinstated the ban.

What happened in Switzerland?

Who is Wilson's coach? He is a big possibility.

Wejo how much do you want this phoney war to escalate? In whose interests is this scrutiny beneficial?

How does the sport benefit when you're effectively saying "Don't take drugs kids, they'll make you faster but it's cheating"?

And it all a big lie.

After listening to Rae's rambling, he's talking about Tumblewood Track Club, whose has athletes tied to Arum Sports and Doyle Management group who also have athletes with Tumblewood. Those agents tie into some big names in athletics. Distance wise both those agents tie into Bowerman, Boss, Beast, NB Boston, Team Pete, Ann Arbor, and On teams in the US and the UK distance group. If, hypothetically, this were true, suggesting any of the training groups are using substances that others aren't is garbage. They are all being doped through their IV treatments and those who want to outwardly claim they are clean aren't being asked for consent to dope.

Ray as an insider knows so much, but he cannot coherently piece together a story. The most recent video is a perfect example why you need to prepare before you present to an audience. It's painful to listen to.

Gist of the story is the athletes are not being told what they are being given.

Who cares. We have men racing women and T&F is still worried about steroids?

Without them the sport sucks. Can you imagine the nfl without them? Back to 250lb olineman. 190lb white running backs lol.

Let em dope

All true, but the last point is of only limited applicability in the determination of a rule contravention unless the athlete is a minor or has some cognitive impairment. It goes to the sanction, where reckless disregard, negligence, or wilful blindness may (but mot must) be considered mitigating factors relative to intentional acts.

Bottom line: unless they have a legally-recognized incapacity, it is the athlete’s duty to take reasonable steps to ensure that no banned substances are introduced into their body. What is reasonable depends on many things, including the specific context. Is it reasonable to suspect that whole foods sourced from the normal stream of commerce would contain banned substances? No, therefore we have tainted food excuses, especially where a sample of the food can be obtained by a neutral third party...and we don’t expect athletes to not choose such whole foods to consume.

Is it reasonable to suspect that a solution that is claimed to have performance and/or recovery-enhancing qualities, introduced via IV, would contain banned substances? It depends. If administered by a real MD in a medical setting with full records, then likely not—but the scale slips from there, all the way to some private joker shoving a needle in your arm and connecting the other end to some plastic bag.

Yes, it happens—and YES, in most cases the athletes can be said to have had a duty to inquire and also to verify, with signed documentation. This is not kid’s stuff, for f’s sake—there could be anything in there, including toxins and pathogens.

It’s time for sprinters especially to start acting like adults, but I doubt that it will happen. It’s just not the culture. Yes there are individual exceptions to this, but the clowns will continue. They’re always trying to get one over, to stay one step ahead. They’re never just straight up, or rarely ever.

Until the penalties are increased to include things like restitution, the rewards will continue to be worth the risks, for many if not most sprinters. They typically have little to lose, and much to gain.

Bottom line, as in many other things: if it seems too good to be true, it probably is.