Martin Smith OUT at Iowa State

Well then....care to tell the truth about how Ihmels got the head job away from Steve Lynn then? That guy was a weasel jerk as well. Maybe Pollard has decided he doesnt like what that brings to his programs. Ihmels should have been kicked hard in the burt on the way out the door as a going away party.

Dont even bring Sanderson into it. Obviously you dont know what happened there either. Why not just say ISU lost Dan Gable too. People have a right to make their kwn minds up where they want to work and raise their families. Yeah, it would have been great for Sanderson to stay at ISU but you should look into what happened to his coach. Enough to break that loyalty with the institution but not the bond he had with his coach. ISU just needs to find a wrestling coach to their program that can help them recruit better athletes and develop them back into contention. Getting harder to do in a sport where the talented branches of the Gable type tree trunks are spreading and thriving. Thank goodness they saved it as an Olympic sport and the development of the womens division. Otherwise, get ready for break dancing. Wait....

Lost Hoiberg also, and look where bb is now.

Did Ihmels leave at the end of his contract with ISU? Sounds like you know something.

That is just silly. Hoiberg left for the NBA.

Are Rudolph and Carroll still married? Have to think that she will be a top candidate for the job. Too many in coaching jobs at ISU.

Jed is dumb wrote:

If he has run good kids off of the team and his 1985 methods are outdated, hiw are his teams winning P5 conf championships and competing nationally?

Jeremy coaches the Kenyans and mid D guys that carried the team in recent years

I was a grad student in economics while Martin was at UVA and was friends with several of the runners on the team.

Martin is complex, but I have a lot of admiration for him.

He seemed ahead of his time. My undergraduate UNC program would never require morning running, much less morning practice. The whole team would mutiny.

The point is that Martin's system took a lot of time and work. I wouldn't give that amount of time if I was an undergrad, but I got an NSF grant to graduate school and school meant more to me than running. This not to say that he didn't have some very good students (Tim Springfield, James Hays), but it took a certain type of person to run for him.

His success with the women was a result of him being able to recruit not only talent but the type of athletes he wanted. I saw a pack of women run a 60-minute one-hour hilly session with grace, It was impressive. I don't think I ran 10 miles straight once in college!

The more talented men at UVA were often recruited by the head coach (a fine man) and they seemed more like me-they were not going to do six-hour practices and had big-time high school results to fall back on. One well-known 1500m runner started to work with him later in his career and I suspect his career would have been different if he spent all his time with Martin. Another very talented 1500m runner never trained with Martin. I always thought he was a huge talent, but UVA was not a good school for him and there was little chance that he could give the time Martin required. The head coach showed his character by working hard to get this guy through school.

I wonder if the general improvement in times and depth in the college track is due to the adoption of some of Martin's methods-heavy mileage, tempo runs, long, long, fartleks, and so on. He changed the game and he should be remembered for that,

Martin had a real health scare before I met him and although he wouldn't talk about it, it was a close call. He lived with the incredible enthusiasm that many who have been to the abyss possess.

Des Donegren wrote:

Did Ihmels leave at the end of his contract with ISU? Sounds like you know something.

He accepted the Boise position and resigned his post at IA ST. Glad he could find a better fit for family and focus on just distance athletes. He didnt have what it takes to build and sustain a contending track and field program mostly because you have to surround yourself with great coaches and get the heck out of their way. Nkt in his personality from a leadership standpoint. He left the cupboard bare. My beef is the promises he made to get into that position to begin with. Couldnt live up to it. Im sure the AD was glad to see him go.

Smith was a supposed step up based on past results at various places but again, not able to revive a once consistent national contender. There are only a few programs that can say that they can compete in bkth XC and T&F these days. But id it can be done in the most unlikely place such as ISU, it can be done again. It really takes the rare/right person to head up that pursuit the right way, not like the last 2 coaches.

Crazy how nobody hears about the reality of the ISU program. Practices are fully segregated. Jeremy does not ‘coach’ the Kenyans - ask the Kenyans themselves...they’ll say “you don’t tell a Kenyan how to run”. Half of them are genuinely older than Sudbury is. If you think all the distance men train together...yikes. This has been a long time coming and Sudbury is not only not a step forward, he’s a step backwards. There’s a reason ISU has been a place where talent goes to die. Martin may have once been a great coach, but the training has regressed and become more conservative with each new season. Track work? Nope. Tempos? Nope. 11 mile runs down to 6:00 pace as a workout. Yup. Only 75 miles a week without a run over 13 miles? Yup. Worst team ‘culture’ in the NCAA and it’s not even close. What other insight do people want ?

Des Donegren wrote:

That is just silly. Hoiberg left for the NBA.

Not that simple. Fred would have eventually left for NBA, but Pollard was trying to capitalize on Hoiberg’s popularity by increasing bb ticket prices and telling fans it was because Hoiberg wanted more money. Guarantee Fred didn’t want to go to Bulls. Hasn’t worked out well for ISU coaches.

Des Donegren wrote:

Did Ihmels leave at the end of his contract with ISU? Sounds like you know something.

I don't know anything and I'm really not implying anything. But from an objective standpoint, Pollard has had three alumni coach at his school, all of whom had pretty exceptional levels of success: Sanderson, Hoiberg, and Ihmels. All of them left. I'm sure every case is unique and individual, but in the aggregate it is hard to ignore. (And for all of the talk about how Hoiberg wanted to get out of college and hated recruiting he's now coaching at noted doormat Nebraska.)

According to this thread, Martin Smith is a terrible coach, but you can't deny that he was pretty successful too, again, from an objective standpoint. But now he's out after eight years with no clear replacement lined up. That just seems weird to me when you view the guy's whole tenure.

One of the worst cities for any P5 but Smith turned them back into a powerhouse. How can his methods be questioned?

Powerhouse ? Good in the Big12 (which is not what it once was) but not a true powerhouse. If you also look at recruiting classes and who scores there is no athlete development. It’s mostly regression. The points and high finishes are all from transfers or Kenyans. All of the American kids who go there out of HS either quit the sport or transfer out. Excepting two (ONLY TWO) athletes since Martin started at ISU.

So where do people think Smith could wind up? Will he only stick to P5 jobs? I mean, there are a LOT of schools in the ACC and Big 12...

Yes. What is their XC place each of the years since Smith arrived? Who cares if athletes improve or not? Winning us everything. Does Alabama care if football players improve or do they care about the team record?

Was there friction between Smith and Andrew Jordan? If so, where did it go wrong? Jordan is very talented. I heard it from others that Smith was the whole reason he went to ISU.

Jed is dumb wrote:

Yes. What is their XC place each of the years since Smith arrived? Who cares if athletes improve or not? Winning us everything. Does Alabama care if football players improve or do they care about the team record?

And THAT my friends is what builds an unstable, unsustainable, regretful running program. Cant really compare to Alabama football. Two different sports, team sport based on individual effort vs team sport that only wins or loses based on taking advantage of other teams weakness and knowledge and ability to exploit it while keeping them from doing the same.

How many Alabama recruits fell by the wayside or transferred during their 4 years for any reason?

How many different ways can a track team like Arkansas, Oregon, Florida etc...win a conference or national title? Sure, they have their go to events because of previous success created by the coaches doing the recruiting. I dont think Oregon would throw away their current sprinter or triple jumper. Balance and depth is the key to winning conference titles and horses are what wins national titles. But the question that all are not able to answer is what keeps an LSU, Arkansas, Florida, Oregon, USC, Texas AM always in the hunt?

Schools like ISU, Tennesee, Stanford etc...have had nice runs but where did those coaches go when the string came to an end?

Put all scholarships in distance running and your name is Colorado, ISU, Tulane, Stanford, NAU, BYU.....

Programs deserving respect get it done or are in contention (top 4) consistently, XC-Indoor-Outdoor, which is difficult for most coaches to do or commit to.

Point is....theres aot of future money on the line at alabama and their coach isnt all that interested in building relationships. XC and TF are a little different in that regard if you expect to co.pete at a high level consistently in 3 seasons.

Best kept secret in the NCAA? wrote:

Powerhouse ? Good in the Big12 (which is not what it once was) but not a true powerhouse. If you also look at recruiting classes and who scores there is no athlete development. It’s mostly regression. The points and high finishes are all from transfers or Kenyans. All of the American kids who go there out of HS either quit the sport or transfer out. Excepting two (ONLY TWO) athletes since Martin started at ISU.

This is exaggerated. There’s been development that stalled this year and more than 2 American kids have stayed in the program.