Lindsay Crouse calls effort to keep biological men out of women's sports an "excuse for transphobia"

Aouita 84 wrote:

saying and believing men don't belong competing in women's sports is not "Trans-Bashing" or "Trans-phobia". "

Nobody wants men in woman's sports. Some people though also don't want tranwoman (a subset of woman) in woman's sports either. And most of them are transbashers who think tranwoman are men.

By your logic, there aren't only two genders or sexes. And therefore, trans people shouldn't be forced into confirming to anyone else's idea of 'gender' or 'sex."

If you truly believe that, the logical step wouldn't be to force everyone into two 'overly conformist' and artificial, sex/gender categories, created by who you would describe a 'white, hetero-normative, cisgender, transphobes." The logic step, if you truly believe what you believe what you're saying would be to have not two, gender-sports divisions, but 64. Or more. Or as many categories as needed, for however many people show up claiming to 'identify' as some unique category.

Why are you trying to force these two 'oppressive' and restrictive gender categories onto a wide ranging population of people who supposedly could have greater than 64 genders, claiming not to fit into two "old fashioned" categories?

Either we have two sexes and genders, only, or we don't.

I think you've misunderstood what she's written. I don't know whether she is for or against trans participation in women's sports. But the passage you've cited does not indicate her stance either way. She's basically saying that some men are silent about supporting women's sports in general, but are only activist when they see biological men participating in women's sports because of their own transphobia. i.e., it's not about supporting women, it's about their transphobia.

Sure, no one has to do anything. That's just lazy tho. The point is that some folks use this issue to bash trans people & don't do a thing to raise women's sports. I think that's a fair critique. LRC is a good example to see this in motion. So many men to the defense of women, yet women avoid this place like the plague. Maybe LRCers don't crusade for women in the ways they think they do?

We just published a guest column on this debate by Amby Burfoot. In it, he wrote, "There is no known case of any individual declaring a gender change to chase athletic glory."

My response to this is, "Not yet."

Let's think about this practically for a minute.

Let's say the woke mob gets the Equality Act passed. Then if you are a conservative-leaning 4:20 high school dude, why in the hell wouldn't you "transition?"

Declare yourself female. No one can question it. You get a full ride to college and get to shower with the girls team. After college, you can tell everyone you changed your mind and become a star in conservative politics.

I'm sorry to be so cavalier about it but to me that may be the only way to get people to realize how stupid this all is.

I think this is a good conversation to have. If folks care to notice, I haven't taken a hard stance in the actual practice/solution. I just think this conversation gets toxic very quickly & that maybe LRC isn't the best forum for this & encourages bashing trans women whether intentional or not.

I don't think the article took a clear cut stance on what to do either but the question posed was what is the state of the women's 800 whether Semenya runs it or not? Women's track still has a long way to go in achieving equity. It seems like people fight so hard to keep Semenya out but then could care less about elevating the sport. There's a disconnect there.

____________________

Am I the only female athlete who loves coming on the boards despite the sexism? It makes me mad sometimes, but I can handle it. If we let some boneheads push us off of a running forum, we're letting them win.

Here's the other thing: these cultural issues are not a diversion. I'd argue that the sudden inability of some of our knowledge-producing institutions to acknowledge one of the most obvious and robust truths about reality (humans are sexually dimorphic) is a CRISIS. Ideology has led the far right and the far left (now any left, since disagreeing with radical ideological nonsense makes one "alt-right") to live in a delusional pesudoreality that threatens the very foundation of our civilization.

Ideology that is indifferent to the truth is hostile to democracy.

You're too wordy with it. This reeks of people who talk about color blindness when talking about race. It assumes that people are treated the same in our society when that is not true. I've noticed that you've avoided any criticisms of how this site pushes transphobia. It's with wordy rubbish like this. Maybe just try to do some listening & think if this thread, the way you handle these issues, is good for the transgender community. Think about if it's really good for women's sports the way men come on here & feel like they have the green light to bash transgender people.

Training. Get some damn training on these topics. You're not equipped to handle these issues. You're turning off anybody who isn't like you. I know you don't care or will lean on free speech or whatever but you have an obligation to do better on stuff like this. It shouldn't be a point of pride that zero transgender people feel comfortable on here & very few women do. It shouldn't be a point of pride that pro after pro on things like the Citius Mag podcast recount awful things said about them here or avoid this place altogether when it's supposed to be one of the leading running authorities.

wejo wrote:

Caitlyn Jenner is not a woman. Maybe we just leave it at "transgender woman" but if someone wants to say "biologically male" to make sure people don't pretend she is a woman, I don't have a problem with it and it is accurate.

Uhh oh. You know i've stepped in it when Rojo texts me saying I can't believe I said Caitlyn Jenner isn't a woman. I think you know what I mean. I guess words matter. I should say female to be accurate but woman apart from transgender woman suffices.

If I was at a restaurant and saw her wearing a green shirt I'd say, "that woman in the green shirt".

So maybe we just stick to male/female. It's closer to more accurate.

rojo wrote:

We just published a guest column on this debate by Amby Burfoot. In it, he wrote, "There is no known case of any individual declaring a gender change to chase athletic glory."

My response to this is, "Not yet."

Let's think about this practically for a minute.

Let's say the woke mob gets the Equality Act passed. Then if you are a conservative-leaning 4:20 high school dude, why in the hell wouldn't you "transition.>"

Declare yourself female. No one can question it. You get a full ride to college and get to shower with the girls team. After college, you can tell everyone you changed your mind and become a star in conservative politics.

I'm sorry to be so cavalier about it but to me that may be the only way to get people to realize how stupid this all is.

This is a very warped way to view things. You're building an argument on a scare tactic that isn't happening. & you're using it to discredit the Equality Act. Please stop.

rojo wrote:

We just published a guest column on this debate by Amby Burfoot. In it, he wrote, "There is no known case of any individual declaring a gender change to chase athletic glory."

My response to this is, "Not yet."

Let's think about this practically for a minute.

Let's say the woke mob gets the Equality Act passed. Then if you are a conservative-leaning 4:20 high school dude, why in the hell wouldn't you "transition.>"

Declare yourself female. No one can question it. You get a full ride to college and get to shower with the girls team. After college, you can tell everyone you changed your mind and become a star in conservative politics.

I'm sorry to be so cavalier about it but to me that may be the only way to get people to realize how stupid this all is.

You think an 18 year old high school kid is going to pretend to be trans when they're not and then get a doctor to give them estrogen so they grow hips and breasts, just so they can own the libs?

No you're right, some conservatives are that wacked!

If you actually want that to happen, have a good look at yourself. He isn't trans, who would be to blame for that kid's problems in the future? The liberals?

Trans people need proper healthcare, including T and E when necessary. But if you aren't trans, this is like taking a high dose of medicine you don't need.

If someone wants to play this long of a con just for the glory of being a conservative celebrity talking head, more power to them. Nothing about this fantastical fake situation would bother me, a person who thinks that a woman should compete with women.

rojo wrote:

The Truth Today wrote:

Let's be clear, these kids NEED to be able to play sports. How do we make that happen fairly? That needs to be discussed.

I agree. Why can't they plan on the men's team? I mean my three year old at recess doesn't care if he's playing with a boy or girl. He just wants to play.

They trans athletes are the ones who are being close minded.

Have you ever been on boys' or men's sports team? Have you ever coached any of them?

If you know what the "team culture" is like, you can see why a trans girl does not want to be part of it.

Have you ever coached a girls' or women's team? Can you see why a trans girl wants to be part of it?

rojo wrote:

We just published a guest column on this debate by Amby Burfoot. In it, he wrote, "There is no known case of any individual declaring a gender change to chase athletic glory."

My response to this is, "Not yet."

Let's think about this practically for a minute.

Let's say the woke mob gets the Equality Act passed. Then if you are a conservative-leaning 4:20 high school dude, why in the hell wouldn't you "transition.>"

Declare yourself female. No one can question it. You get a full ride to college and get to shower with the girls team. After college, you can tell everyone you changed your mind and become a star in conservative politics.

I'm sorry to be so cavalier about it but to me that may be the only way to get people to realize how stupid this all is.

U really think some kid in HS cares so much about winning a race that he would cross dress like a girl?

U really think someone’s gonna change their ENTIRE life just cuz of a track race?

Bro cmon u cant be that dumb.

rojo wrote:

We just published a guest column on this debate by Amby Burfoot. In it, he wrote, "There is no known case of any individual declaring a gender change to chase athletic glory."

My response to this is, "Not yet."

Let's think about this practically for a minute.

Let's say the woke mob gets the Equality Act passed. Then if you are a conservative-leaning 4:20 high school dude, why in the hell wouldn't you "transition.>"

Declare yourself female. No one can question it. You get a full ride to college and get to shower with the girls team. After college, you can tell everyone you changed your mind and become a star in conservative politics.

I'm sorry to be so cavalier about it but to me that may be the only way to get people to realize how stupid this all is.

The Equality Act would have nothing to do with the rules regarding transgender athletes for the NCAA, USATF, IAAF and IOC.

Your 4:20 HS dude scenario will never happen.

NERunner00053, I get that you're mad at the content on here, but you don't speak for all women or their comfort level. You have no evidence that "very few women feel comfortable on here." I seriously doubt anybody would think I was a women if I didn't specifically say that I am one. Also, if few women are on the boards, it might be for reasons other than sexism.

Last but not least, the people picking on Rojo for suggesting that somebody would be trans just so they can win at sports should consider the phenomenon of white women pretending to be minorities, ostensibly for attention and prestige (in jobs where being a minoirity is thought to confer valuable insider knowledge). There have been at least 4 incidents in the past few years.

Note that we live in a culture that, instead of advocating for oppressed people on the grounds that they're denied opportunities, asks alleged privileged people to virtue signal about their guilt and commitment to radical change. Side note: this does nothing for oppressed people, but it is a way for the privileged to jockey for one another's jobs based on identity.

If you're deemed privileged, you're not allowed to speak. People aren't allowed to identify into an oppressed race or ethnicity; they are allowed to define their own gender identity, since the construct is entirely subjective. It would be odd if people did not grift this system. Aside from intentional grift, people have internalized an unverifiable theory on human existence (queer theory) and apply it to their own lives. Being trans now isn't just for people who feel deeply alienated by their own bodies; it's for people who aren't walking stereotypes of the gender associated with their sex. Some young people literally believe that gender is a performance and that not wanting to perform the gender associated with your birth sex means you're nonbinary or trans. I've literally heard college students say this.

rojo wrote:

We just published a guest column on this debate by Amby Burfoot.

He says in this column:

"If trans advocates want to make the “science” argument, they should present evidence that trans women are no stronger or faster than cisgender women."

But you cannot prove a null hypothesis. The only thing one can do is to reject an alternative hypothesis.

How many women have posted on this thread?

And your post has just shown that you have no brains.