NAU go 1-2-4-5 against Colorado and Stanford

hmmm conundrum wrote:

FastTuohy wrote:

Same course, same weather, so yes. Could Mantz have gone faster? Didn't sound like it on that day. Another day, who knows?

The 5 NAU guys in both races, not named Raff, ran an average of 31 seconds faster.

The 5 BSU guys in both races ran an average of 32.8 seconds faster.

I’m no expert on the expected progression of collegiate runners, but I suspect Tullyrunners would rate the races quite differently. That, or you would expect the rest of the teams from silver state, like BYU, to improve about 30 seconds over the same timeframe.

NAU and WA girls both ran very similar times in the two races. Is there a known reason the course might have been 30 seconds faster today? I guess we could say the course was faster today, but both WA and NAU girls teams all had bad days? Most of the Stanford girls ran around 25 seconds faster than they did in FL a few weeks back. Is the LV course similar in speed to the FL course (which I hear has a decent hill on the loop)? My bet is that the NAU guys are getting faster as we approach the NCAA championship. Perhaps BYU is as well, but we don't have any data to suggest that (do we?)

Colorado’s best guy also ran significantly faster. I think they just marked the course wrong today honestly.

red5 wrote:

FastTuohy wrote:

NAU and WA girls both ran very similar times in the two races. Is there a known reason the course might have been 30 seconds faster today? I guess we could say the course was faster today, but both WA and NAU girls teams all had bad days? Most of the Stanford girls ran around 25 seconds faster than they did in FL a few weeks back. Is the LV course similar in speed to the FL course (which I hear has a decent hill on the loop)? My bet is that the NAU guys are getting faster as we approach the NCAA championship. Perhaps BYU is as well, but we don't have any data to suggest that (do we?)

Colorado’s best guy also ran significantly faster. I think they just marked the course wrong today honestly.

The whole CO also ran much faster than they ran in FL last time out (like the Stanford girls) They did not run in prior LV meet. I think the LV course is much slower than the FL course. Which says something about Kiptoo vs the field.

* I think the LV course is much faster than the FL course.

I see DJ Principe in that race. What happened to that kid? 14:32, 8:44, 4:00.xx in HS and he regressed in Stanford. Looks like Cole Sprout is taking the underachieving route as well despite his stellar 8:40.x in HS.

Stanford wasting talent again.

More like overtrained in HS

Where's Drew Bosley? He was their top finisher as NCAAs in 2019

DJ had an injury his freshman year I believe and it went downhill from there

sourskittles wrote:

DJ had an injury his freshman year I believe and it went downhill from there

DJ ran for a HS in little rhody that is infamous for ruining talent, similar to hendricken but worse.

No surprise that he has not improved.

rhody red wrote:

sourskittles wrote:

DJ had an injury his freshman year I believe and it went downhill from there

DJ ran for a HS in little rhody that is infamous for ruining talent, similar to hendricken but worse.

No surprise that he has not improved.

So he had a stellar high school career, hasn't become a total stud in college and you blame the high school program? Weird logic there.

Bonkers wrote:

rhody red wrote:

DJ ran for a HS in little rhody that is infamous for ruining talent, similar to hendricken but worse.

No surprise that he has not improved.

So he had a stellar high school career, hasn't become a total stud in college and you blame the high school program? Weird logic there.

Not at all, have a talented kid run fast does not take great coaching, not squandering the talent is more difficult. You actually have to check your ego at the door and let it happen without screwing it up. The programs mentioned screw it up often than not to say the least.

The kid would have had a stellar HS career by accident.

Stoppit Smith wrote:

Talent?

Now I really need a solid answer.

Hasty was almost a minute faster in his HS PR than Nur. 14:32 to 15:30. Is the talent suddenly not there?

Hasty ran 13:55 and made the NCAA outdoor final in the 5k as a true freshman. The following xc season as a redshirt frosh he finished 6th at the McNichols invite, 3rd at the conference meet and 3rd at Mtn regionals. Ended up 46th at nationals as part of NAU's off day.

I think he's flashed plenty of potential. From the outside looking in it sure seems like his future is in the 10k. Sounds like he did some pretty high mileage in high school so he ran some impressive mile times but he's not a true middle distance runner. Might have gotten pretty close to his potential there so if you were expecting him to drop a 3:55 I just don't think that's the kind of runner he is.

rhody red wrote:

Bonkers wrote:

So he had a stellar high school career, hasn't become a total stud in college and you blame the high school program? Weird logic there.

Not at all, have a talented kid run fast does not take great coaching, not squandering the talent is more difficult. You actually have to check your ego at the door and let it happen without screwing it up. The programs mentioned screw it up often than not to say the least.

The kid would have had a stellar HS career by accident.

I still don't really understand your argument. How exactly are they screwing up talent? Just from my personal experience Hendricken had 2 solid guys that I ran against in high school at some regional meets. Both went on to improve a ton in college.

Yes..you make outstanding points. My main question is, in light of your 13:55 information which I was not aware of, why he couldn't be trained to the level of the top 3. Using the approximated math of his 13:55, he was at a 4:29 pace then, which might be about 4:43 in xc or 14:42 for 5k....translate this to about a 4:52 for 8k, and you have 24:10....which is on par with his 8k PR of 24:04. But now...his time 23 and change suggests that his time has dropped only 18 seconds as a general average when you look at the 5k. I am not sure Hasty is getting what he originally put in for by committing to NAU. I'm just not.

Having run HS XC and track but not college, here's what I need solidified for an athlete like Brodey Hasty (as I supported Hasty prior to his decision):

If you are the #1 or #2 athlete, does the coach try to preserve placing?

Can a coach make arbitrary judgments about talent based on extraneous factors? (i.e. Hasty is not that tall)

If all athletes on the team do the same workout, and the #5 performs better than the #2, is that taken seriously or does the #5 have to repeatedly outperform people to move up?

If Hasty beats Nur on a bad day for Nur, where is he considered?

It doesn’t matter what so ever because both are still top 7???

Fitness determines workouts, not what number guy you are on the team

I think I'd expect him to get there eventually. His first few college seasons are actually fairly similar to Cooper Teare's, before he really broke out. Not saying Hasty will do the same thing, but sometimes it takes guys a couple years in college before they hit that top top level. Hasty definitely profiles as someone who will eventually challenge for top 10 xc finishes and all-americans on the track.

Right. So should he go to Oregon (his original recruiting) for his last two redshirt years? No disrespect to Coach Smith, but I think Hasty is no longer on his radar. Brodey Hasty in 2018 was practically unbeatable. NAU is doing Hasty dirty. I said it. I mean it.

Stoppit Smith wrote:

Right.

So should he go to Oregon (his original recruiting) for his last two redshirt years?

No disrespect to Coach Smith, but I think Hasty is no longer on his radar.

Brodey Hasty in 2018 was practically unbeatable.

NAU is doing Hasty dirty.

I said it.

I mean it.

Bonkers wrote:

I think I'd expect him to get there eventually. His first few college seasons are actually fairly similar to Cooper Teare's, before he really broke out. Not saying Hasty will do the same thing, but sometimes it takes guys a couple years in college before they hit that top top level. Hasty definitely profiles as someone who will eventually challenge for top 10 xc finishes and all-americans on the track.

lol