robert brandt jabs at tinman again

I completely align with OP.

Parsons thinks he’s the only one working out on Christmas, on a Friday especially...

Keep calling it as it is Brandt the people appreciate it. The ones who don’t are in high school.

ditto that wrote:

Yet Tinman is 100x more popular for some reason.

Gee do you think the reason they are more popular because they make content for their fans to engage with? Runners often complain about the amount of publicity our sport gets compared to NFL/NBA/etc yet those sports not only have massive media machines but also know to keep feeding them content - even in the offseason.

Teams like Tinman need to be the basis for the future of the sport, innovating to sell merchandise and give sponsors a reason to stick around beyond race day results. Very few companies will spend sponsorship $$$ out of the kindness of their hearts, they want to see metrics and returns on investment, the teams that can demonstrate that will ultimately succeed.

get-the-eyeballs wrote:

ditto that wrote:

Yet Tinman is 100x more popular for some reason.

Gee do you think the reason they are more popular because they make content for their fans to engage with? Runners often complain about the amount of publicity our sport gets compared to NFL/NBA/etc yet those sports not only have massive media machines but also know to keep feeding them content - even in the offseason.

Teams like Tinman need to be the basis for the future of the sport, innovating to sell merchandise and give sponsors a reason to stick around beyond race day results. Very few companies will spend sponsorship $$$ out of the kindness of their hearts, they want to see metrics and returns on investment, the teams that can demonstrate that will ultimately succeed.

They are more popular among high schoolers and immature college kids. Are you one of those?

Others in the running community are aware that Tinman is flashy and grows the sport for high schoolers, which is great.

People that really matter in the running community, and that are frankly good at running, are aware that Tinman has one real professional runner.

Tinman should not be the basis. An actual club like Bowerman should be and previously NOP, but that’s a different story obviously.

If Tinman is the basis then a sixteen year old 9:45 3200m runner will dream of running 13:47 at age 25 pretending to be one of the best in the country.

They are more popular, period. And being popular is good for the sport, period.

Why do people think Tinman has grown the sport? They just sell T-shirts to kids that already liked the sport. Most tinman fans are tools that would rather pretend to be fast than put in the work to become fast. I only see 4:40/10:15 guys wearing tinman shirts at track meets.

Football players are not watching tinman videos and joining cross country. Tinman is profiting off of the current fan base, they are not increasing the size of the distance running fan base.

This is where we disagree.

They are more popular based off their Instagram followers? That’s a fair metric but should not always be the end all be all.

Anyway, they might be more popular, sure. But just because their popularity is off the charts doesn’t mean it’s good for the sport. Yes, it gets track and field exposure, but if Tinman is how people are exposed to track and field then that’s an issue.

I don’t want the average high school runner or even a regular sports fan to have Tinman be their view of American distance running. That will be a sad reality. There are plenty of real runners out there that unfortunately don’t have flashy, indy filled social medias.

Tinman increasing track and fields popularity is not good for the sport because they give a false impression of what the real American professional runners are about. It’s sad and sickening.

You are welcome to your incorrect opinion.

Me being incorrect is subjective, I could be right or wrong and the same goes for you.

I’m curious to know from your perspective as the 4th man on your D3 team why Tinman is seen as so good for the sport?

Guys like Frank Shorter and Pre had a big impact without social media, we are talking apples and oranges here but still... just because you on your phone that Tinman has lots of followers does not mean that it is good for the sport.

I used to be a supporter like many on the boards.

The Tinman hype is evaporating as real runners have realized their overvalue.

strengthmoneyinthebank wrote:

I’m curious to know from your perspective as the 4th man on your D3 team why Tinman is seen as so good for the sport?

As hominem - classic tactic of those who are grasping at straws.

I don’t need to spend time explaining how being more popular is good anymore than I need to spend time explaining how 2 + 3 = 5.

ditto that wrote:

Why do people think Tinman has grown the sport? They just sell T-shirts to kids that already liked the sport. Most tinman fans are tools that would rather pretend to be fast than put in the work to become fast. I only see 4:40/10:15 guys wearing tinman shirts at track meets.

Increasing interest and excitement in the sport, even for those already in the sport, spreads to those who are less interested and even those who are disinterested. That's how it works, people (especially teens) don't just keep increased excitement to themselves. They share it with peers who maybe had only previously seen the sport as high school participation drudgery with some social benefits, forget the pro level let alone what counts as "truly elite" performance on running nerd message boards. Most of these pro groups are aloof and unaccessible, Tinman Elite are going the opposite way. I honestly don't care for TME, but I'm already a lifelong fan of the sport and they're clearly not really hoping to reach the likes of me. I much prefer NAZ Elite yet I do recognize that TME knows their audience and are connecting with it better than almost anyone else in their field.

under a bridge wrote:

strengthmoneyinthebank wrote:

I’m curious to know from your perspective as the 4th man on your D3 team why Tinman is seen as so good for the sport?

As hominem - classic tactic of those who are grasping at straws.

I don’t need to spend time explaining how being more popular is good anymore than I need to spend time explaining how 2 + 3 = 5.

You spend enough time coming back to this thread like me so you might as well explain unless you are incapable.

I agree that there are some benefits to them being popular like high school runners getting interested.

My point is that you only perceive them to be popular because they have flashy social media. They are extremely popular in the high school / college bubble but there is a world beyond that. Also, it’s sad that high schoolers look up to these guys.

I would just like to explain what value Tinman Elite provides besides getting high schoolers something to look at on Instagram along with cool tee shirts.

Can you please explain why they are popular besides that?

I really don’t think you can but would appreciate if you could so people reading this inefficient discussion can realize that Tinman is overvalued.

Should I have to explain why 2+ 3 = 5 as well?

You can’t even support your contention that their reach only extends to selling t-shirts to high schoolers, though you’ve at least relented that there are positive impacts that stem from that.

I am trying to my best to acknowledge both sides of our argument and you’re losing credibility by not doing the same.

Almost every single college runner I know in the last year has gotten off the Tinman train along with those I know just out of college who still follow the sport. I have not heard positive things about Tinman from this crowd and that includes college coaches that have ties.

This is the last time I’ll ask for you to expand your argument beyond saying 2 + 3 = 5.

What value does Tinman provide beyond reaching to high schoolers and immature college runners? For the third time can you please answer that?

under a bridge wrote:

You can’t even support your contention that their reach only extends to selling t-shirts to high schoolers, though you’ve at least relented that there are positive impacts that stem from that.

QFE

strengthmoneyinthebank wrote:

What value does Tinman provide beyond reaching to high schoolers and immature college runners? For the third time can you please answer that?

Non high-school, non immature-collegiate, masters runner who understands that any social media (including Tinman), race coverage, news articles, etc that help spread the word about running is a good thing. I like how aggressive Tinman is in trying to market and grow visibility.

It all starts somewhere... maybe with high school and college runners (can you post demographics?). Those high school runners that typically stop running after graduation may keep running because they're inspired, or collegiate runners continue post-collegiately, and in turn engage other people to run with them.. and so on.

BTW while Tinman may not be uber-popular, it has twice as many Twitter followers as Rupp.

Who cares if Tinman doesn't have the best of the best, or if they're flashy, as long as they generate interest in the sport. As they say, no publicity is bad publicity.

ditto that wrote:

strengthmoneyinthebank wrote:

They are more popular among high schoolers and immature college kids. Are you one of those?

Others in the running community are aware that Tinman is flashy and grows the sport for high schoolers, which is great.

Why do people think Tinman has grown the sport? They just sell T-shirts to kids that already liked the sport. Most tinman fans are tools that would rather pretend to be fast than put in the work to become fast. I only see 4:40/10:15 guys wearing tinman shirts at track meets.

Football players are not watching tinman videos and joining cross country. Tinman is profiting off of the current fan base, they are not increasing the size of the distance running fan base.

Like them or not Tinman marketing and Schwartz CV training plans have changed high school distance running in very positive ways. It may be resonating with 4:40/10:15 guys but it’s actually producing multiple sub 9:00 sophomores, a 4:01 sophomore miler, and multiple NXN team champions—All while averaging less than 60 miles a week!!! In addition the Tinman guys send personal notes when kids buy a shirt and comment on their Instagram race posts. Their ‘keep the ball rolling’ training philosophy is the best thing to happen to high school running. Like them or not —These guys get it.

Just looked up this Brandt kid - he’s completely irrelevant. A 4:07 miler that has run 13:40 and 27:40? Poor kid is gonna get blasted in a championship race in which he needs to close in sub-55 or better.

Drew Hunter would lap him over 2 miles and that kid ain’t making the team.

They have twice as many followers on Twitter? Oh my gosh!

Brandt has a better chance of making the olympic team than Drew Hunter. Brandt's 10k scores significantly higher on the IAAF scoring table than Hunter's 5k.