22 Japanese high school boys broke 14:00 this year. Only 9 American HSers have EVER done it

you're delusional.

Thanks Brett Larner. We still kick their ass at Olympics and World Champs.

I would bet that many of the Japanese high school runners are a year ahead of their American counterparts, because they will be at most 18 years old on March 31 in their last year, which means that many of them will turn 19 that same year, all those with birthdays in April through December. Americans will typically turn 18 near the end of or shortly after their senior year ends. An increasing number of American boys are being held back from kindergarten or a later grade so that they finish close to their 19th birthday, and that list includes quite a few of the sub-4 milers we've had in high school, but in general, a higher proportion of the Japanese athletes are a year older than the Americans. Case in point, Suguru Osako:

he was born in May 1991 and was 2nd in a major Japanese championship in 2010 before graduating high school that year and beginning at university. So, it was less than two months before his 19th birthday that he graduated high school. By comparison, Webb and Hall were 18 at graduation and there are sometimes athletes like German Fernandez who are 17 at graduation (he was just 18 at OSU when he ran 3:55 mile and 7:47 3000m). These championships in Japan this year were held when some of the athletes would have already turned 18 and others would still be 17. But many are older than typical American hs seniors at this point.

This is not to diminish the accomplishment. The Japanese are training very hard already and get the results at 5k and up. Americans rarely run 5000m on the track in high school, which very much diminishes the # under 14, but it wouldn't come close to equalling the Japanese # if it were the case without changing the training. If we add the American freshman of roughly the same age as the Japanese seniors, we'd get a much better match, I think. However, I can't back that up as I couldn't find deep NCAA lists. All I found was a top 20 list from last year with one freshman, Lane of Stanford, who ran 13:42.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suguru_Osako

Thanks for the plug! My video making isn’t the best and the video is waaaayy too long but still there are some interesting nuggets. The great Pre would rank about #75 in the 5K for Japanese high schoolers. The amazing thing is that the kids don’t seem to burn out. The 500 sub-15 high schoolers per year turn into 350 63-minute half-marathoners per year in college.

In Japan, the focus is on the 3K in jr high (7-9th grade) 5K in high school (10-12th grade), and the half marathon in college. The jr. high, high school, and college evident generally fall along these lines in terms of distance per leg.

Osako was also recruited by a high school hundreds miles away to run for their team. This is not uncommon not just among runners, but also for athletes in baseball, soccer or any other high profile sports. They train with other top level junior talents all year.

How many American HS runners are in a training environment like that?

[quote]zxczxcv wrote:

I would bet that many of the Japanese high school runners are a year ahead of their American counterparts, because they will be at most 18 years old on March 31 in their last year, which means that many of them will turn 19 that same year, all those with birthdays in April through December. /quote]

Actually, the opposite is true. Japanese and American high schoolers are generally 18 at graduation. In the U.S. the big high school meets are 1-2 months before graduation whereas in Japan they are 7 months before graduation. So, on average, the Japanese high school seniors are about 6 months younger than their American counterparts when running the big races.

Standard Setter wrote:

Top 10 All-Time Japan 5000m

13:08.40, Suguru Osako

13:12.63, Tetsura Yoroizaka

13:13.20, Takayuki Matsumiya

13:13.40, Toshinari Takaoka

---13:15.34

---13:18.10

13:13.60, Yuki Sato

13:18.32, Yu Mitsuya

13:18.49, Yuta Bando

13:18.99, Hyuga Endo

13:19.00, Kensuke Takezawa

13:19.62, Koto Murayama

Umm every heard of Jordanson Hasaysito 13:14.78

You forgot also Albertosuki Salazaryama 13:17.22

Ghost1 wrote:

Is it super impressive but one thing to check is the age of high school athletes in Japan which I believe is slightly higher than the U.S. can make a difference if there’s a one year difference in age at which they finish high school? Maybe someone can chime in to provide some information on this?

Wasn't rupp at least 19+ when he ran that "high school" time. And grampa cheserek was about 30. It is a little surprising that Verzbikas isn't on the list too. Wasn't LV a 16 year old "high school" freshman? Funny how all the age cheats end up at byu and oregon.

Sub-14 is 839.99 seconds divided by 5000m world record 755.36 = 11.2039293% slower than 5000m world record.

Two mile world record is 478.61 seconds times 1.112039293 = 532.233126 seconds or 8:52.23312602 two mile. Subtract about 4 seconds for 3200m is about 8:48 3200m.

Another poster stated 5000m is not raced often during U.S. spring T&F.

U.S. needs to question our cross country programs. There is no logical reason why U.S., going back to Lon Myers are the best 400m/440yds., 600yds./600m athletes in the world. Why are U.S. athletes not great at 800m?

Why are Japanese good to very good up to 100m then why are Japanese good from Marathon to ultra-Marathon? Why are Japanese ordinary from 400m to 10000m?

Neither Japan or U.S. are great at 5000m. U.S. is a 100m to 800m nation with the occasional sub-1:45 800m man earning a 1500m medal.

Bad Wigins wrote:

And yet eleven US-born runners have ran faster than 13:08, compared to no Japanese ever.

Splain me that.

Why don't you splain us the conjugation of the word "run" please?

If the Japanese had a doping culture like East Africa (and the lack of testing), they would dominate distance running just as much or more so.

Yeah, but most will end up roadrunners. Track is not a popular sport in Japan.

.l.b.j. wrote:

Bad Wigins wrote:

And yet eleven US-born runners have ran faster than 13:08, compared to no Japanese ever.

That whole past participle (for completed action) or present participle (for continuous/still commencing action) thing really fooks you up.

One of us knows language is a matter of common usage and "rules" are mere approximations.

On the next level you will find the past participle is reverting over time to the preterite as we discard our slobbering German past. Never try to "correct" someone with an irregular form.

Bad Wigins wrote:

[quote].l.b.j. wrote:

One of us knows language is a matter of common usage and "rules" are mere approximations.

Nah. Natural language is a convention, and rules are essential to maintaining that convention (i.e., define "common usage") and minimizing the ambiguity inherent in natural language.

"Have run" is considered correct everywhere but the Letsrun message board.

They should move down in distance wrote:

If I lived in Japan or was a coach in Japan I would encourage my athletes to run the 800 or 1500.

But I think if you really were a coach at a Japanese high school, university, or corporation, you would be under tremendous pressure to produce the strongest ekiden team you can, because that's what gets all the coverage here.

Just like American universities with high-budget football and basketball programs, all of those organizations want to see their teams on TV, and the ekidens -- not track or x-country -- are what gets the lion's share of the TV coverage here.

Clearly, if US runners and Japanese runners traded places in terms of training philosophy, 5k stats here would improve and 800/1500 stats there would improve.

/End

No. He was barely 18.

And if you check most of the top BYU runners, they were on the young end when they started. Most are 24 when they ended. If you have some info for the NCAA since you are slandering the University, you probably should provide it. They can track your IP address if you continue to make false statements. Letsrun can ban you also.

For anyone interested, here's the recent Japanese NR in the men's 10,000 (27:18).

The winner looked like he had quite a bit left (last lap ~60), although he was helped mightily by the foreign athlete who finished a close second.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6qX7tSo3z4

Taro wrote:

For anyone interested, here's the recent Japanese NR in the men's 10,000 (27:18).

The winner looked like he had quite a bit left (last lap ~60), although he was helped mightily by the foreign athlete who finished a close second.

Please take a good look at the African runner.

I've seen top African distance runners in person, and many of them are so small and slight that it is almost impossible to believe their performances are not based on PEDs.

I remember finishing a 10k road race, nothing special for me, and the 3 winners around the finish standing . They were mid-28s for 10k road race (that used to be fast), and I thought they were 7th or 8th graders until they turned around and their faces revealed mid-20s. I would be surprised if those guys were 5' 2" and even more surprised of they weighed over 100 lbs.