Mo Farah is the reason we're not more excited about Cheptegei's 12:35...

agreed, one of the better posts I've read.

They are just making excuses for Farah. He just didn't hv it in him to break the 5k or 10k records. Which is no slight on his racing ability. He is a pathologically competitive person, like all athletes are; who has gone after all sorts of British and European records including in some non standard events. But he didn't attempt a 5k or 10k. The only thing some pple wd never place him at the level of Bekele or Geb was the slow race times and lack of WRs. The rewards for a British athlete being a WR holder at an event like 5k or 10k are incalculable. He knew this, his team new this, and the British athletic authorities knew this. His sponsors knew it too. These two records are simply very difficult. Bekele, Komen and Geb were incredible runners, who were active at the roughly the same era. And they pushed these records. The last 10 yrs hasn't had the same calibre of runners. There have been other incredible runners who could have gone close. The lists for top 25 times in both 5k and 10k are available. Athletes know their bodies, fitness and pace. Depending on conditions on day of the race, many know what pace they can sustain. If they drive harder, they break and may not even finish the race.

Cheptegei is one of very few who pushes the pace. Even in his earlier races in his career he did this. Ref Kampala WXC champions. He was leading by a very large margin when his body shut down on him. I remember reading a comment by Kamworor who eventually won the race saying he saw him take off and thought no way cd he sustain that pace. Even in the WC 2017 10k final where he was 2nd, the race time was quick for a WC final cos Cheptegei was pushing the pace all the time, but others were not willing to take up pace making duties.

Finally, Cheptegei and his team knew he would break the record cos he had already done so in training in Kampala (read this somewhere but can't find link, but it's out there somewhere). They were so sure they fought tooth and nail to get him on a plane out of Uganda for the race. The international airport out of there is closed (covid lockdown). The Ugandan President had to authorize the flight out and charter him an aircraft from the national carrier fleet to get him to neighbouring Kenya for a connection flight. There are athletes who set up these attempts all the time and we don't know why they do so. Have they run faster than WR in training b4 or are they simply hoping they will do it first time in the race itself.

So no slight intended on Farah or any other current 5k and 10k racers, but most of them are last 2 or 1 lap sprinters. Cd they train and produce 60 sec laps for 12 and a half laps? It's quite difficult.

Maybe setting a WR is not that important to everyone, but winning is

Weren’t 5ks dead in the Diamond League? Was this one only ran because of the pandemic?

roeowo23 wrote:

Maybe setting a WR is not that important to everyone, but winning is

Bolt is not famous because he’s an Olympic Gold Medalist. He’s famous because he’s the fastest man in the world by virtue of setting the world records.

This is the reason there is no successor to him. So long as they don’t have the record, they’ll never be acknowledged by the public as being the fastest.

Seyta wrote:

roeowo23 wrote:

Maybe setting a WR is not that important to everyone, but winning is

Bolt is not famous because he’s an Olympic Gold Medalist. He’s famous because he’s the fastest man in the world by virtue of setting the world records.

This is the reason there is no successor to him. So long as they don’t have the record, they’ll never be acknowledged by the public as being the fastest.

Farah went after British and European records like a plague. From 1500m to the Marathon if I am not mistaken. So yeah, records were important to him. And he is supposed to be attempting a hr record later this year.

I agree with this. Farah wanted records if he could, and if he happened to be in top shape in a non-Champs year. But the gold medals mattered much more, they mattered for funding, for sponsorship, and for UK Sport to justify its government investment. World Records are great but can be transient.

I am disappointed that we have never found Farah's ceiling at the 5 and 10. He clearly had more than 12:53 in him, but who knows how much more? I bet Salazar has a good idea

I'm just excited to see some world class running again after the past 5 months. WR in an Olympic event in the middle of a pandemic is memorable

runderun wrote:

I agree with this. Farah wanted records if he could, and if he happened to be in top shape in a non-Champs year. But the gold medals mattered much more, they mattered for funding, for sponsorship, and for UK Sport to justify its government investment. World Records are great but can be transient.

I am disappointed that we have never found Farah's ceiling at the 5 and 10. He clearly had more than 12:53 in him, but who knows how much more? I bet Salazar has a good idea

Farah was obsessed with his competitive record and medals. It is disappointing that he was risk-averse when it came to attacking World Records or even fast times in the 5,000 and 10,000. He definitely wanted the mystique that came with how he ran - lurking towards the end and then dominating the last 400-800 with his kick. Cheptegei is totally different in his approach. Look at World XC where he rigged up and fell apart after going for broke. Instead of running from that moment, he took on an absurd course lastyear and ran courageously and won. Or last year when he pushed the pace in the DL 5000m final, going out alone. Farah, meanwhile, would mostly dodge Cross Country in races he might lose. He wanted the aura over Kamworor for their meetings on the track. In Road Racing now, he runs tactically. I think it's unlikely we'll see him try to go out in 61:00 to hang with a Bekele and Kipchoge for a World Record. This isn't to say he dodges people either, but rather in his heyday he just tried to win the best way he knew how. That is not the attitude to set records. It's not a Salazar thing, either. Kejelcha and Hassan were willing to gamble on their fitness and go to the front and push the pace with Salazar to chase records.

Good points. I agree.

Maybe the root problem is a lack of prestige attached to all-time lists.

Mo thought: "Why bother going for a fast time if I can't attain the WR?" But if he perceived a Top-10 All-Time Performance as a worthy goal, then we'd have had a faster past decade.

IMO Farah just didn't want to. The way Farah races a 5k is basically 11 laps of tempo running and then an all-out sprint at the end. Trying to run a certain time is agonizing and would cause him tons of stress and pain. What's the point of going through all that just to run, say, the 7th fastest time ever, when he could focus on winning major global competitions instead?

Disagreement wrote:

Trying to run a certain time is agonizing and would cause him tons of stress and pain. What's the point of going through all that just to run, say, the 7th fastest time ever, when he could focus on winning major global competitions instead?

Well it could've been further up in the greatest of all-time category. Also, he could set some really tough European records. He could've taken an EPO doper (Mourhit) off the list, there. Now it will likely be Jakob at the 5000 to take down the 12:49 and Farah's weak 2 mile record of 8:07, and Mourhit's strong 3,000 record (7:26) that Farah would've found tough to get even if he chased.

Almost every runner decides that chasing a time at some point is worth the effort. Farah is more in the minority to not do that. Can't really think of any other "great" who was like it.

Well said and spot on! You can say the same for the 10,000m. Both the 5 and 10 world records are super tough to achieve and it takes that one guy who says "I can get it" and be willing to do it alone.

"Go Run One"

eurodonkey wrote:

Does anyone have any theories for WHY the Monaco track is so fast (beyond the Nick Willis "it's downhill all the way round" line)?

I would have thought that if it had some perfect degree of springiness, people building WC stadia would have copied it.

Or is there just a meeting for each generation (Rieti, Bislett, Zurich etc) that just "gets it right" with prize money, logistics, pacing, making athletes feel great?

It is all mental. People go to Monaco and immediately get a firm belief in their mind a fast time is inevitable just because it's Monaco. "Everyone runs fast here so I will too" is probably a thought that goes through every athletes mind during warmup.

You see something similar in the 4x400m relay. Many many athletes run way faster than their PB because they now have the mental push of competing with a team. They cannot let the other three guys down so they push harder than ever before.

The mind is a very powerful force and little belief goes a long way.

What can Rhonex Kipruto run for 5000m now? We know he can run close to the 10000m wr with his 26:22 road 10km in regular Adidas shoes. Cheptegei and Kipruto are both guys with the mentality to run fast, unlike Mo. They should smash the 10000m record, particularly if they run it together, giving Cheptegei a pacer the whole way in Kipruto or alternating. Kipruto might just be able to make a run at the 5000m record as well, even though he clearly lacks the finishing speed of Cheptegei.

A sport that only focuses on breaking records isn't a sport for long.

Everything is seen as uneventful if the focus is on records.

Unfortunately, that is almost the kind of sport we have ended up with already.

As for why Mo Farah didn't attempt World records, well part of that can be explained with the media response to his 3:28.

Mainstream sources (not letsrun) reported Farah as finishing 4th at the diamond League, rather than the remarkable time.

I think the sport needs to focus on racing, and make the races mean something. I said before Cheptegeis run that I wouldn't be excited by a solo time trial. A race with all the names would be far more exciting. It seems others agree.

ilonggo wrote:

I'm just excited to see some world class running again after the past 5 months. WR in an Olympic event in the middle of a pandemic is memorable

I am very happy to see this WR as well. I didn't expect a WR in the 5000m given the heat and the difficulty of running that fast for 12.5 laps but Chep was amazing. What a performance. If he really is a 10K runner as well it's looking good for him when he goes for that record too.

What a joke thread this is. It’s Farah’s fault no one ran fast? Get over yourself. Why would Farah run fast when he can win running slower? Clearly you’ve never raced at a high level. All this Farah hate here because he didn’t chase fast times is ridiculous. Who cares? He’s a winner.

whatajoke wrote:

What a joke thread this is. It’s Farah’s fault no one ran fast? Get over yourself. Why would Farah run fast when he can win running slower? Clearly you’ve never raced at a high level. All this Farah hate here because he didn’t chase fast times is ridiculous. Who cares? He’s a winner.

It’s not hate to say his presence/mentality changed the way elite races were run while he was on the circuit. Nobody is saying his world/Olympic medals aren’t impressive. Some things don’t need to be defended against because they were never meant to be attacks to begin with.